ValueBuddies.com : Value Investing Forum - Singapore, Hong Kong, U.S.

So true, those big funds better dump yzj on monday before its too late. Save your bullets to fight for another day.

(30-05-2014, 11:58 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: [ -> ]China is a complicated place. When you have a case like this and accusations are being levelled, no matter if business tactics are for protection of certain party interests, it will get very complicated.

For me it is very simple - the entire China ship building industry is in some sort of doldrums. How can one company be shining so brightly above others. On a big picture basis it is highly puzzling.

In any event, the quality of China listings on SGX has always been questionable. Eric Ang, the outgoing banker at DBS investment banking division (may not be the exact title and division) recently made a statement that S chips are history and unlikely to make a comeback.

In the midst of all these uncertainties, better be safe than sorry. I simply have no faith in any Chinese companies as the corporate governance remains highly questionable. The last thing that you need is for trading in shares to be halted or suspended.

If even it is business as usual, it is highly likely that YZJ will be derated as a result of this episode.

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GG

GG, you do have quite a bit of CMPac at your portfolio right?

It is true that corporate governance is a biggest concerns on the s-chips, but i think YZJ is a different example judging on the amount of dividends paid over the past years despite challenging business environment on the shipyards. To me there are only 2 groups of s-chips that i never ever touch, (i) too good to be true, and (ii) stingy in paying back to shareholders. YZJ doesn't fall into these categories IMO and so as for CMPac.

(31-05-2014, 12:09 AM)HoHo Wrote: [ -> ]So true, those big funds better dump yzj on monday before its too late. Save your bullets to fight for another day.

It would be so much better if you would contribute your assessment rather than just prediction and accusation.

I thought my statement sounds quite polite in a way, never intend to offence against anyone here. But I am afraid that your statement seems not so appropriate in a value forum like this. I wouldn't want to say much but I do trust the moderator.

http://wk.baidu.com/view/6f53de72a417866...1469327878

Table4 show the penalty of recent cases, only about 26% of the studied53 cases lead to criminal prosecution.

A good read on the study of insider trading in China. There is another case of everbright security on bloomberg, can't paste the link here.

I did a very quick scan on the long document.

The definition of insider and insider information can be vague and too broad.

YZJ has 3 charges, not all as announced by the news. ( lump with tai Li .. Yuan investment co)

1) insider trading
2) illegal profiting due to the harsh terms of contract ( is a ah long contract$)
3) hindering independent governance and operation of company.

Of the three, 1) is the one that is most difficult...

Personally, which shadow banking product is not on a long terms? (2)

For three, shouldn't tai Li ... Yuan the major shareholder bear the most blame for installing the management, in this case Ren?

For 1) the accusation is on insider information, and hence making the shares purchases illegal, given transparency is always an issue in china, how strong is this accusation?

The outright breach should come from tai Li .. Yuan when he sell its shares for a profits during the holding period.

So, I guess we have 3 scenarios

1) case dismissed after legal challenge or investigation

2) Ren gets away with the alleged illegal profits confiscation and a fine. No criminal prosecution.

3) Ren gets criminal persecution and company is banned from
Involving in HTM trades.

So whether YZJ is a steal or falling knife depends on which is the likely scenario. If it is 1), u get a smart rebound.

2) impact is hard to justify

3) will mean a very severe write down in the company's HtM assets.

Will trading be halt pending the 3 outcomes is anyone guess.

(31-05-2014, 11:57 AM)Greenrookie Wrote: [ -> ]Repost from my blog:

http://sinoshipnews.com/News/Yangzijiang...c2699.html

I have not done background check yet, but if Taixing Liyuan is also owned by REn, then there is no way he can escape a easy fight.

I write about the most serious accusation of selling during holding period by Taixing liyuan, and transfer of management as biggest shareholder, to Ren. If Taixing liyuan is owned by Ren, he basically orchestrated the whole thing.

Bro you are superb, Tianjin Guoheng is determined to open the whole can of worms on Taixing and Ren himself, meaning he's nailed.

Indeed I do have a lot of CM Pac. CM Pac has a long track record that withstand the test of times. It is still in firm control of State owned parent that controls a critical national infrastructure - roads. If you do further research on the parent:

http://www.hj.net.cn/en/second.aspx?nodeid=133

CM Pac and the parent is no ordinary Chinese company.

YJZ is another shipyard in China. While it may boast of efficiency that differentiates it from competition, it cannot be viewed as a strategic industry. Hence, in view of the glut in the Chinese yard capacity and the rising costs of production in China, one should be extremely careful in trying to pick a darling within a tough industry.

Having said that, I have no vested interests here and do not claim to have a thorough understanding of YZJ and its competitive advantages. I am merely tapping on my potentially obsolete knowledge and experience of S chip debacle (fortunately apart from some odd lots that had since issued me with worthless share certificates to remind me of the scams, I have been relatively unscathed) to advice caution for many buddies who may be holding on to the slightest hope that YZJ may be different.

YMMV
GG

(31-05-2014, 12:17 AM)valuebuddies Wrote: [ -> ]GG, you do have quite a bit of CMPac at your portfolio right?

It is true that corporate governance is a biggest concerns on the s-chips, but i think YZJ is a different example judging on the amount of dividends paid over the past years despite challenging business environment on the shipyards. To me there are only 2 groups of s-chips that i never ever touch, (i) too good to be true, and (ii) stingy in paying back to shareholders. YZJ doesn't fall into these categories IMO and so as for CMPac.

http://nextinsight.net/index.php/story-a...-high-life

(Not Vested)

Ren YuanLin Profile (source: AR2012)

REN YUANLIN | (Aged 59, PRC) | Executive Chairman

Mr Ren was appointed as a Director of the Company on 13 January 2006 and the Chairman on 18 March 2007. He was last re-elected on 27 April 2012. He is the founder of the Group and is currently responsible for the overall management and operations of the Group.

Mr Ren has over 30 years of experience in the shipbuilding industry, and has worked within the Group and the Group’s predecessors in various positions since the 1970s.

In 1973, Mr Ren joined Jiangyin Shipbuilding Factory as a worker, involved in cold works.

From 1976 to 1982, he held the positions of vice-head and head of the ship body workshop.

From 1982 to 1984, he was the department head of the process technology department.

From 1984 to 1985, he held the position of Assistant Shipbuilding Supervisor.

During the period between 1985 and 1997, inclusive of the time when Jiangyin Shipbuilding Factory was changed to Jiangsu Yangzijiang Shipbuilding Factory, he concurrently held the positions
of Assistant Factory Supervisor and Supervisor of the shipbuilding subfactory.

From 1997, Mr Ren has held the concurrent positions of Factory Supervisor and Chairman of the board of directors in Jiangsu Yangzijiang Shipbuilding Factory (which has since been changed into Jiangsu Yangzijiang Shipbuilding Co., Ltd in 1999).

Mr Ren was awarded the Outstanding Factory Supervisor (Management) award for two consecutive years by the Jiangyin Municipal Commission of Communist Party, People’s Government of Jiangyin Municipality in 2000 and 2001. He also holds a Diploma in Economics from Jiangsu Television Broadcasting University which he was conferred in 1986.

(31-05-2014, 02:39 PM)Nick Wrote: [ -> ]http://nextinsight.net/index.php/story-a...-high-life

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