What I find most disappointing is this govt's lack of desire to raise Fertility Rate or explore further ways to tackle the problem. Other than those few measures announced by Chan Chun Sing just before the ponggol east by-election, that appears the end of it. If that is the extent his ministry and the govt is prepared to do to raise TFR, then this country is as good as finished. Time for change in 2016.
4 more long years to 2016....meantime many hardships for the people for during this long wait..
(07-02-2013, 11:11 PM)kichialo Wrote: [ -> ]What I find most disappointing is this govt's lack of desire to raise Fertility Rate or explore further ways to tackle the problem. Other than those few measures announced by Chan Chun Sing just before the ponggol east by-election, that appears the end of it. If that is the extent his ministry and the govt is prepared to do to raise TFR, then this country is as good as finished. Time for change in 2016.
They never have any intention to raise fertility. Just doing lip service to show they have done something know fully well that they will never work. Take it as excuse to bring in more migrant. The hidden agenda is to increase the vote count.
The PAP always give us reasons why they do this and that, but their underling motives are always completely different from what they make out to be:
1) Increase GST to help the poor; the poor end up poorer,
2) Increase HDB price because we have limited land; then they allow more immigration.
.... and the list goes on
WP should challenge their hidden agenda.
(07-02-2013, 12:32 AM)natnavi Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure if you give away 4 room HDB to every couples that have 3 kids and more, the TFR will start going up like crazy.
I like this idea and it does not impose much burdens on the nation.
Cost of a HDB flat = cost of construction + land cost.
Cost of construction is around $200 psf and a 4rm flat costs $200*1000psf = $200k per flat.
Since land cost is just virtual money and highly dependent on the population and if Singaporeans do not procreate, the virtual money is as good as zero.
$200k for three kids. value for money.
And literally remove the biggest cost item in young families.
The flat will also give a better living space for those who residing in smaller units or sharing with parents.
(08-02-2013, 09:15 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (07-02-2013, 12:32 AM)natnavi Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure if you give away 4 room HDB to every couples that have 3 kids and more, the TFR will start going up like crazy.
I like this idea and it does not impose much burdens on the nation.
Cost of a HDB flat = cost of construction + land cost.
Cost of construction is around $200 psf and a 4rm flat costs $200*1000psf = $200k per flat.
Since land cost is just virtual money and highly dependent on the population and if Singaporeans do not procreate, the virtual money is as good as zero.
$200k for three kids. value for money.
And literally remove the biggest cost item in young families.
The flat will also give a better living space for those who residing in smaller units or sharing with parents.
I think there was a claim by opp a decade back that they could build a unit in potong pasir for under 100k. Of course if you think about it no developer that still want to do business with HDB will dare to ever take it up.
So to add actually it's a good idea since we are assuming it cost so little to build a HDB flat and there was a suggestion in the papers or was it somewhere else anyway I read they could build a new category of HDB flats non-resalable type has no market value ie you cannot sell on open market except back to government. Of course you will never get it free they will make sure you pay a subsidized rate so if you have three kids or more and as a reward you can apply for a no-market value house.
(08-02-2013, 09:22 AM)cfa Wrote: [ -> ]Many know their agenda, but can't do anything , just lan lan.
Not 100% hoh!
In history, the common people of a country or nation suffers so much that they can't take it anymore so they take matters into their own hands. There is always a breaking point in anything in life. But PAPYs is always very smart playing about on this "Breaking Point".
Have Sink aporeans reached the "BREAKING POINT"?
Not yet but not very far away as even people in this blog also protest, what about people who doesn't have the privilege to blog (read rich enough)...etc... i think the 2015/6 election gives the people some hope still. Which means the "Breaking Point" of the masses still has an outlet or escape route.
There you are no 100% of anything in life.
(08-02-2013, 10:25 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2013, 09:15 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (07-02-2013, 12:32 AM)natnavi Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure if you give away 4 room HDB to every couples that have 3 kids and more, the TFR will start going up like crazy.
I like this idea and it does not impose much burdens on the nation.
Cost of a HDB flat = cost of construction + land cost.
Cost of construction is around $200 psf and a 4rm flat costs $200*1000psf = $200k per flat.
Since land cost is just virtual money and highly dependent on the population and if Singaporeans do not procreate, the virtual money is as good as zero.
$200k for three kids. value for money.
And literally remove the biggest cost item in young families.
The flat will also give a better living space for those who residing in smaller units or sharing with parents.
I think there was a claim by opp a decade back that they could build a unit in potong pasir for under 100k. Of course if you think about it no developer that still want to do business with HDB will dare to ever take it up.
So to add actually it's a good idea since we are assuming it cost so little to build a HDB flat and there was a suggestion in the papers or was it somewhere else anyway I read they could build a new category of HDB flats non-resalable type has no market value ie you cannot sell on open market except back to government. Of course you will never get it free they will make sure you pay a subsidized rate so if you have three kids or more and as a reward you can apply for a no-market value house.
The cost of construction for a HDB estate can be found in various listed SGX construction companies' announcement.
Example
http://www.chipengseng.com.sg/administra...0N2C23.pdf
The contract is worth $210 millions.
The total no. of dwelling is 1232 units and assuming an average area of 1000 sqf per unit. The cost of construction psf is around $170.
If we add in other miscellaneous cost(maybe $30 psf), each 1000sqf HDB unit will probably cost around $200,000.
Assuming 5000 families opt for it yearly, the yearly construction cost is around $1 billion.
but 5000 families x 3 kids = 15000 kids.
If it hit 10000 families, the cost will go to $2 billion.
For a larger flat, the family will have to top up themselves.
With this scheme, the gov can remove the tax incentives for child birth. The tax incentives for child birth sounds a lot but it only benefits the high income earners. For low income earners, most of them are not even paying tax or little tax. The tax incentives are as good as never give.
Of course, if we count the virtual money in, then it is a lot more but what is virtual money if there are no future singaporeans??
(08-02-2013, 10:56 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2013, 10:25 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2013, 09:15 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (07-02-2013, 12:32 AM)natnavi Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure if you give away 4 room HDB to every couples that have 3 kids and more, the TFR will start going up like crazy.
I like this idea and it does not impose much burdens on the nation.
Cost of a HDB flat = cost of construction + land cost.
Cost of construction is around $200 psf and a 4rm flat costs $200*1000psf = $200k per flat.
Since land cost is just virtual money and highly dependent on the population and if Singaporeans do not procreate, the virtual money is as good as zero.
$200k for three kids. value for money.
And literally remove the biggest cost item in young families.
The flat will also give a better living space for those who residing in smaller units or sharing with parents.
I think there was a claim by opp a decade back that they could build a unit in potong pasir for under 100k. Of course if you think about it no developer that still want to do business with HDB will dare to ever take it up.
So to add actually it's a good idea since we are assuming it cost so little to build a HDB flat and there was a suggestion in the papers or was it somewhere else anyway I read they could build a new category of HDB flats non-resalable type has no market value ie you cannot sell on open market except back to government. Of course you will never get it free they will make sure you pay a subsidized rate so if you have three kids or more and as a reward you can apply for a no-market value house.
The cost of construction for a HDB estate can be found in various listed SGX construction companies' announcement.
Example
http://www.chipengseng.com.sg/administra...0N2C23.pdf
The contract is worth $210 millions.
The total no. of dwelling is 1232 units and assuming an average area of 1000 sqf per unit. The cost of construction psf is around $170.
If we add in other miscellaneous cost(maybe $30 psf), each 1000sqf HDB unit will probably cost around $200,000.
Assuming 5000 families opt for it yearly, the yearly construction cost is around $1 billion.
but 5000 families x 3 kids = 15000 kids.
If it hit 10000 families, the cost will go to $2 billion.
For a larger flat, the family will have to top up themselves.
With this scheme, the gov can remove the tax incentives for child birth. The tax incentives for child birth sounds a lot but it only benefits the high income earners. For low income earners, most of them are not even paying tax or little tax. The tax incentives are as good as never give.
Of course, if we count the virtual money in, then it is a lot more but what is virtual money if there are no future singaporeans??
Ah .. 210 mil is the tender awarded by HDB, this amount includes percentage of profit for developer. But how much did it cost HDB to buy the land from URA before giving it to developers? Did they do a mark up?
And how much did URA got the state land for if they got it in the 50's and 60's era
Of course if we start getting into that again they will again say that is tantamount to raiding the national reserves
Fear is an extremely powerful tool that management can apply to control its people.
A close examination of how fear is being employed right now are the words that are being used to describe the outcome if we do not expand our population to >6.5 million. The mainstream media paints a gloom and doom picture if we do not subscribe to the white paper's policy.
They seemed to start using this tool when they soon realize that the initially efforts to persuade the masses by giving them hope seems to be failing. Hope that there will be enough housing and transportation to support the 7 million people.
I have got to say that "Hunger Games" really thought me much about controlling people. It showed me that how management can use a little hope as an effective tool to control the masses.
-------------------------------------------
As for the 4 room HDB flat for couples with more than 3 children, it is one very effective way. The governement need not use this to encourage couples to have more kids, but I got to say, to me, the government is not doing enough to boost the TFR.
In the other extreme, the government can penalize couples or perons who have less than two children by taxing them at a higher rate as compared to those who have two children and above. Given the current unhappiness on the ground, I do not think the government should employ such methods.
It looks to me that the government is more interested in bringing in more people rather than boosting the TFR because their actions and policies they have placed and proposed do not show this.
Just my 2 cents worth of thought.
(08-02-2013, 10:56 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2013, 10:25 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ] (08-02-2013, 09:15 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (07-02-2013, 12:32 AM)natnavi Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure if you give away 4 room HDB to every couples that have 3 kids and more, the TFR will start going up like crazy.
I like this idea and it does not impose much burdens on the nation.
Cost of a HDB flat = cost of construction + land cost.
Cost of construction is around $200 psf and a 4rm flat costs $200*1000psf = $200k per flat.
Since land cost is just virtual money and highly dependent on the population and if Singaporeans do not procreate, the virtual money is as good as zero.
$200k for three kids. value for money.
And literally remove the biggest cost item in young families.
The flat will also give a better living space for those who residing in smaller units or sharing with parents.
I think there was a claim by opp a decade back that they could build a unit in potong pasir for under 100k. Of course if you think about it no developer that still want to do business with HDB will dare to ever take it up.
So to add actually it's a good idea since we are assuming it cost so little to build a HDB flat and there was a suggestion in the papers or was it somewhere else anyway I read they could build a new category of HDB flats non-resalable type has no market value ie you cannot sell on open market except back to government. Of course you will never get it free they will make sure you pay a subsidized rate so if you have three kids or more and as a reward you can apply for a no-market value house.
The cost of construction for a HDB estate can be found in various listed SGX construction companies' announcement.
Example
http://www.chipengseng.com.sg/administra...0N2C23.pdf
The contract is worth $210 millions.
The total no. of dwelling is 1232 units and assuming an average area of 1000 sqf per unit. The cost of construction psf is around $170.
If we add in other miscellaneous cost(maybe $30 psf), each 1000sqf HDB unit will probably cost around $200,000.
Assuming 5000 families opt for it yearly, the yearly construction cost is around $1 billion.
but 5000 families x 3 kids = 15000 kids.
If it hit 10000 families, the cost will go to $2 billion.
For a larger flat, the family will have to top up themselves.
With this scheme, the gov can remove the tax incentives for child birth. The tax incentives for child birth sounds a lot but it only benefits the high income earners. For low income earners, most of them are not even paying tax or little tax. The tax incentives are as good as never give.
Of course, if we count the virtual money in, then it is a lot more but what is virtual money if there are no future singaporeans??
The problem is, if the couple, after getting married and getting their free flat, is not able to meet their target of 3 kids by X year, then how? Ask them to pay for the flat or pro-rate the flat cost based on number of kids? If they finally end up with the targeted 3 kids by X + Y years, then HDB pay back eh?