(27-08-2013, 10:16 AM)WolfT Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:11 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]If i want to invest like a "Venture Capitalist", why S CHIPS? Singapore and Malaysia don't have CHIPS to invest meh?
Uncle Temperament, it is because s-chip looks cheap as compared to the rest of the local stocks. The rush and greed to built wealth asap also plays a part of the decision making...
Yes! It may be so. i have been caught by many S CHIPS too.
But when NERA was still a CHIP not many months ago, isn't it a better CHIP than any S CHIP?
i wish i were brave enough to invest when it was priced at 38 to 40 cents.
Maybe too late already.
Still not vested.
(27-08-2013, 09:47 AM)Ray168 Wrote: [ -> ]I am one of the victims of CMZ saga.
Sharing my reflection & thought...
1. Prior to investing I did some due diligent as generally S-chip company is risky.
2. Since Tetra (GIC) is the SSH, plus Templeton... I thought this company should be low risk company.
3. Then I look at the company track record... Good fundamental with consistent growth. High ROE and low PER. The only man concern was the high account receivable. When it reports the AR is manageable as EU is recover, I decided to invest.
4. When Tetra sold its entire stake in Mar2013, I am a bit uneasy. However, my concern eased off a IndoFood take over. InfoFood even increase its stake. It add more confident.
5. I am pretty confident the company will excel and Mr. market will match its value in the due course.
So, relax and wait for the fruit.
6. Then come the Black Monday (26 Aug2013) the price plunged 48% and trading halted. I was alerted when the price fell 15%. Ask myself, is there any bad news? None to my best knowledge. KimEng said that the earning is below expectation. Mmm, I thought that Mr Market is over-reacted. May be can pick up some to accumulate. ("fortunately did not execute the buy")
7. The price continue to fall, up to 30% and I was then 'wake up" something must be wrong. I google and saw the Glaucus Research Report. Before I can react to it, the price already plunge 50% and then follow by trading halt.
8. Through out the 'horror' experience, I was pretty calm (may be I have high margin of safety?). I get the real life experience to see the share price plunge every minutes..... I really pity for those who bought the shares during the opening when price is still at ~ $1.00, may be react to KimEng call that CMZ target price of $1.36.
9. Now that the saga had lapsed, I just have to wait for CMZ response to the accusation. Will CMZ able to proof its case that the accusation is wrong and take legal action? If yes, then CMZ will recover, but the process will be slow as Mr. market has lost confident. Or someone is contrarian and pick up from here.
10. Worst case is that CMZ is at fault.... then that probably the end of it...
11. Anyway, what I could do now is just wait for CMZ response and decide next course of action. Will I continue to invest in S-chip? Probably yes.
shucks i hope you and wildreams at least come out of this with things intact. Go a close friend in this as well.
I realise a lot of the bias/assurance/due diligence comes from the strength of the substantial shareholders being templeton, perhaps affiliated with Mark Mobius.
The lesson learn seems to be the motivations of substantial shareholders and what happens when they do not have vested interests, or when compensation scheme do not reward them in the appropriate manner.
I remember considering whether to buy into CMZ, after seeing some respected forumers buying, GIC buying, as well as a nice looking IPO prospectus, with mildly interesting financials.
I showed the prospectus to my gf. She looked at the cover page, and declared, no, don't buy into this company. So I didn't look through further.
Her sixth sense saved me a number of times lol.
Did went against her sixth sense once in Cosco (as my first stock purchase) and is still in deep red. Fortunately didn't have much capital then, so even if it is 100% loss, it is minimal when I look back now. Once more in selling DBS at $9 (bought at $8)... lol
Moral of the story: My gf's sixth sense is more powerful than any of my analysis or thoughts. [meant as a joke]
(27-08-2013, 10:27 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:16 AM)WolfT Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:11 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]If i want to invest like a "Venture Capitalist", why S CHIPS? Singapore and Malaysia don't have CHIPS to invest meh?
Uncle Temperament, it is because s-chip looks cheap as compared to the rest of the local stocks. The rush and greed to built wealth asap also plays a part of the decision making...
Yes! It may be so. i have been caught by many S CHIPS too.
But when NERA was still a CHIP not many months ago, isn't it a better CHIP than any S CHIP?
i wish i were brave enough to invest when it was priced at 38 to 40 cents.
Maybe too late already.
Still not vested.
I also missed out. But perhaps we did not attribute enough margin of safety when it comes to taking care of Chinese company governance.
To be fair it have made me relook if I am placing too much faith in China Merchant Pacific even though we did extensive due diligence when it comes to withholding tax, substantial share holders and their motivations.
Another thing is what about the Chinese companies listed in hong kong. Is it a good rule not to invest in them too?
I believe many of us here had went through the pain of involving in a bad trade / investment.
Me not excluded, as I had bought Fibrechem in early 2008. I had lost make a paper loss of 5 figures amount, likelihood to become realized loss sometime in futures, as Fibrechem had been in trading halt for many years until today.
Lesson Learnt: Never make a buy decision just because some analyst put a buy call to a stock. History had shown too many time that the buy call could keep being downward adjusted over and over again by the same analyst or broker house when the price move downward.
I had since write off my investment in Fibrechem, but keep the track record as a reminder.
(27-08-2013, 10:27 AM)Drizzt Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 09:47 AM)Ray168 Wrote: [ -> ]I am one of the victims of CMZ saga.
Sharing my reflection & thought...
1. Prior to investing I did some due diligent as generally S-chip company is risky.
2. Since Tetra (GIC) is the SSH, plus Templeton... I thought this company should be low risk company.
3. Then I look at the company track record... Good fundamental with consistent growth. High ROE and low PER. The only man concern was the high account receivable. When it reports the AR is manageable as EU is recover, I decided to invest.
4. When Tetra sold its entire stake in Mar2013, I am a bit uneasy. However, my concern eased off a IndoFood take over. InfoFood even increase its stake. It add more confident.
5. I am pretty confident the company will excel and Mr. market will match its value in the due course.
So, relax and wait for the fruit.
6. Then come the Black Monday (26 Aug2013) the price plunged 48% and trading halted. I was alerted when the price fell 15%. Ask myself, is there any bad news? None to my best knowledge. KimEng said that the earning is below expectation. Mmm, I thought that Mr Market is over-reacted. May be can pick up some to accumulate. ("fortunately did not execute the buy")
7. The price continue to fall, up to 30% and I was then 'wake up" something must be wrong. I google and saw the Glaucus Research Report. Before I can react to it, the price already plunge 50% and then follow by trading halt.
8. Through out the 'horror' experience, I was pretty calm (may be I have high margin of safety?). I get the real life experience to see the share price plunge every minutes..... I really pity for those who bought the shares during the opening when price is still at ~ $1.00, may be react to KimEng call that CMZ target price of $1.36.
9. Now that the saga had lapsed, I just have to wait for CMZ response to the accusation. Will CMZ able to proof its case that the accusation is wrong and take legal action? If yes, then CMZ will recover, but the process will be slow as Mr. market has lost confident. Or someone is contrarian and pick up from here.
10. Worst case is that CMZ is at fault.... then that probably the end of it...
11. Anyway, what I could do now is just wait for CMZ response and decide next course of action. Will I continue to invest in S-chip? Probably yes.
shucks i hope you and wildreams at least come out of this with things intact. Go a close friend in this as well.
I realise a lot of the bias/assurance/due diligence comes from the strength of the substantial shareholders being templeton, perhaps affiliated with Mark Mobius.
The lesson learn seems to be the motivations of substantial shareholders and what happens when they do not have vested interests, or when compensation scheme do not reward them in the appropriate manner.
Agreed.
I think the motivation due to the substantial shareholders was very strong.
Apart from there, lots to learn from the Glaucus report, which was to compare margins with similar industries in similar market segments. And if the top customers or suppliers are listed, it is prudent to always check up on them too. That was what amazed me in the report.
(27-08-2013, 10:31 AM)starcraft_76 Wrote: [ -> ]I believe many of us here had went through the pain of involving in a bad trade / investment.
Me not excluded, as I had bought Fibrechem in early 2008. I had lost make a paper loss of 5 figures amount, likelihood to become realized loss sometime in futures, as Fibrechem had been in trading halt for many years until today.
Lesson Learnt: Never make a buy decision just because some analyst put a buy call to a stock. History had shown too many time that the buy call could keep being downward adjusted over and over again by the same analyst or broker house when the price move downward.
I had since write off my investment in Fibrechem, but keep the track record as a reminder.
Looking back,
I did bought lots of S chips
1) HongXing... was at one point at 80% loss, managed to sell of at a profit before it got suspended months later. Bad decision to have bought even though money was made
2) Lost little at China Sky
3) Made little at Fuxing
4) Lost little at Ying Li
(27-08-2013, 10:31 AM)Drizzt Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:27 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:16 AM)WolfT Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:11 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]If i want to invest like a "Venture Capitalist", why S CHIPS? Singapore and Malaysia don't have CHIPS to invest meh?
Uncle Temperament, it is because s-chip looks cheap as compared to the rest of the local stocks. The rush and greed to built wealth asap also plays a part of the decision making...
Yes! It may be so. i have been caught by many S CHIPS too.
But when NERA was still a CHIP not many months ago, isn't it a better CHIP than any S CHIP?
i wish i were brave enough to invest when it was priced at 38 to 40 cents.
Maybe too late already.
Still not vested.
I also missed out. But perhaps we did not attribute enough margin of safety when it comes to taking care of Chinese company governance.
To be fair it have made me relook if I am placing too much faith in China Merchant Pacific even though we did extensive due diligence when it comes to withholding tax, substantial share holders and their motivations.
Another thing is what about the Chinese companies listed in hong kong. Is it a good rule not to invest in them too?
I did consider Neratel at 30 cents, but I went into Starhub because both were yielding 10% at that time, and Starhub is the blue blue chip compared to Neratel.
But chips carries their own risks. I am still stuck at the suspended Berlian Laju
Already written it off. Enough to buy 2 proposal rings...
(27-08-2013, 10:31 AM)Drizzt Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:27 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:16 AM)WolfT Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:11 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]If i want to invest like a "Venture Capitalist", why S CHIPS? Singapore and Malaysia don't have CHIPS to invest meh?
Uncle Temperament, it is because s-chip looks cheap as compared to the rest of the local stocks. The rush and greed to built wealth asap also plays a part of the decision making...
Yes! It may be so. i have been caught by many S CHIPS too.
But when NERA was still a CHIP not many months ago, isn't it a better CHIP than any S CHIP?
i wish i were brave enough to invest when it was priced at 38 to 40 cents.
Maybe too late already.
Still not vested.
I also missed out. But perhaps we did not attribute enough margin of safety when it comes to taking care of Chinese company governance.
To be fair it have made me relook if I am placing too much faith in China Merchant Pacific even though we did extensive due diligence when it comes to withholding tax, substantial share holders and their motivations.
Another thing is what about the Chinese companies listed in hong kong. Is it a good rule not to invest in them too?
i had read many S CHIPs "rejected" listing in HKX. , somehow get listed in SGX. I also had read HKX has been trying to put more responsibility on underwriters and associates regarding IPOs. Another words, underwriters or associates may be sued if IPO is not probably scrutinised for fraud or discrepency. i don't know what is the final outcome. maybe worth to investigate further.
(27-08-2013, 10:31 AM)starcraft_76 Wrote: [ -> ]I believe many of us here had went through the pain of involving in a bad trade / investment.
Me not excluded, as I had bought Fibrechem in early 2008. I had lost make a paper loss of 5 figures amount, likelihood to become realized loss sometime in futures, as Fibrechem had been in trading halt for many years until today.
Lesson Learnt: Never make a buy decision just because some analyst put a buy call to a stock. History had shown too many time that the buy call could keep being downward adjusted over and over again by the same analyst or broker house when the price move downward.
I had since write off my investment in Fibrechem, but keep the track record as a reminder.
That's where you and many people got it wrong. I don't know whether you noticed that MAS will not let a company go under. over the years have seen many companies in the red eventually halted and placed under a judicial manager and eventually things got better from there.
I like to use Mediastream, it is the only company that has the best "worst case" scenario. Before it was halted and placed under jm it went thru a series of reverse takeovers from at least 2 different suitors and then it still lost money, it was negative capital for sometime and eventually halted and placed under JM who cleaned up, found and brought in the current owners.
Yongnam also same thing, was in trouble placed a judicial manager who managed to clean up and turn things around.
I put money investing in these 2 cigar butts and made money after several years. Since then I'm always on the look out for cigar butts to put money in.
... fiberchem huh I'll bear that in mind.
there is once i bought petra foods at 33cents, and i followed an dbsvicker analyst strong sell call at 70++cents..
to-date, my heart still beri painful. analyst realli hai si lang...
(27-08-2013, 10:47 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ] (27-08-2013, 10:31 AM)starcraft_76 Wrote: [ -> ]I believe many of us here had went through the pain of involving in a bad trade / investment.
Me not excluded, as I had bought Fibrechem in early 2008. I had lost make a paper loss of 5 figures amount, likelihood to become realized loss sometime in futures, as Fibrechem had been in trading halt for many years until today.
Lesson Learnt: Never make a buy decision just because some analyst put a buy call to a stock. History had shown too many time that the buy call could keep being downward adjusted over and over again by the same analyst or broker house when the price move downward.
I had since write off my investment in Fibrechem, but keep the track record as a reminder.
That's where you and many people got it wrong. I don't know whether you noticed that MAS will not let a company go under. over the years have seen many companies in the red eventually halted and placed under a judicial manager and eventually things got better from there.
I like to use Mediastream, it is the only company that has the best "worst case" scenario. Before it was halted and placed under jm it went thru a series of reverse takeovers from at least 2 different suitors and then it still lost money, it was negative capital for sometime and eventually halted and placed under JM who cleaned up, found and brought in the current owners.
Yongnam also same thing, was in trouble placed a judicial manager who managed to clean up and turn things around.
I put money investing in these 2 cigar butts and made money after several years. Since then I'm always on the look out for cigar butts to put money in.
... fiberchem huh I'll bear that in mind.
Very good for you. i always believe in the stock market is so complicated that there are always ways to make money more than you can think of. If you only know how. How?