Stock market is like this. I do not have any s-chips anymore, but I cannot guarantee that my own portfolio will be subject to similar situations even if they are blue chip material.
If individuals want more returns, they should still limit their exposure to a comfortable level. Be prepared to lose money from the most unexpected situations.
Above my thoughts, does not mean I agree with sgx bringing in s-chips. I think sgx has not done enough to have a mature stock market running, from regulating s-chips to preventing insider trading.
What do company normally do before IPO?
Window dressing - good set of historical results and then use it as a basis for colorful projection into the future.
A/R of Sino grandness is frightening. I will be very surprised if the share price of Fresh Garden does not drop after the IPO.
(Caveat Emptor - I could be wrong)
(20-08-2014, 08:54 AM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:14 AM)kikababoo Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 07:38 AM)Adagio Wrote: [ -> ]Any moderators here?
Do you think Curiousparty is justified in naming other S-Chips in his earlier post on Erata:
“Hence, I hope value buddies will understand why I become very apprehensive of S-chips (e.g. sunsine, sino grandness, etc) once I sense that management might be up to some tricks in their sleeves, etc especially when the company has a bumper year and company still did not want to buy back any shares to boost investor's confidence...(this is my personal view - caveat emptor)”
He did not mention what the tricks Sino and Sunsine plays. He seems to be keen on capitalising on the Errata scandal to frighten shareholders of Sino Grandness and Sunsine and spreading scare.
He's just saying other s-chips, and he named some examples of s-chips (etc sunshine and sino-grand...). If like that also nedda moderate i don't know what to say ler.
Adagio must have heavy stake in china sunhine and sinograndness...
(20-08-2014, 07:38 AM)Adagio Wrote: [ -> ]Any moderators here?
Do you think Curiousparty is justified in naming other S-Chips in his earlier post on Erata:
“Hence, I hope value buddies will understand why I become very apprehensive of S-chips (e.g. sunsine, sino grandness, etc) once I sense that management might be up to some tricks in their sleeves, etc especially when the company has a bumper year and company still did not want to buy back any shares to boost investor's confidence...(this is my personal view - caveat emptor)”
He did not mention what the tricks Sino and Sunsine plays. He seems to be keen on capitalising on the Errata scandal to frighten shareholders of Sino Grandness and Sunsine and spreading scare.
I think it's ok, he is not spreading fear lah, he just stating his own view, which is what we need in VBs, we shd all do our own judgement after hearing views from all side. Btw sunsine did quite alot of share buy back a year or two back.
I believe china wont deport any prc to sgp, the political damage might be Hugh..
On eratat, I was lucky to get out when they issue the high interest bond.. Just too fishy.. I just wonder how sia give the award ? Paid? Lol.. Just speculating (mod pls delete if deem inappropriate)
Only vests in 1 s-chip now
So far in my personal dealing with PRC Chinese, only a very small minority of them has real sense of morality and ethical values.
This is a sad reality. (So many Sporeans are complaining about PRC-run stores/hawker centres, etc)
(btw, just another example. spoons made in China vs spoons made in Korea - a very big difference. Those made in China lose their luster within a week or so. Those made in Korea continue to shine even after many months. If possible, I will not use anything from China if health issues are concerned unless they fully clean up their acts...)
(20-08-2014, 01:18 AM)ValueBeliever Wrote: [ -> ]I like to believe that the China Chinese are making the world a better place, but so far the corruption politics/business, territorial claim (after it had grown mightier) and the constant nagging of Japan past military crime, had kept me from all things China produce.
In fact everytime I see Made in China, I like to think of it as bad quality or produce with low cost without regard for environmental and human/labor concern. I recently bought a hammer and was shocked to find the its core is hollow and cracked after use. Its a Stanley brand (not sure if its bad forgery fake??) but made in China!!
Since President Xi is such a good politician in cleaning up China's corrupt business/political elite, will Singapore raise any issue to prosecute some of these S chip crooks? I really have my doubt!!
Who will volunteer to cry in protest (on S Chip) when President Xi visit? I remembered Senior Lee cried hard enough that President Jiang asked something be done about Suzhou? Do we even have the courage to address real issue or talk of more investment by Singapore into China conditional on arrest be made?
i have been saying that if a company wants to manipulate its' AR, every item can be manipulated.
So be very wary but you really can't do much if you are not an insiders. Because by the time you know, most probably the whole market will know.
Think of "Enron", "World-Com" etc.... happened in US, what are S-CHIPS? Nothing right? Peanuts only to US. i know, i had been one of the victims of mesmerized by (forged cash hoard) by another S-CHIP long ago before "ERATAT".
Thank God managed to save about 20K+ though lost about 5 figures. This was the time i KK due to greed.
Caveat emptor!
(20-08-2014, 08:54 AM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:14 AM)kikababoo Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 07:38 AM)Adagio Wrote: [ -> ]Any moderators here?
Do you think Curiousparty is justified in naming other S-Chips in his earlier post on Erata:
“Hence, I hope value buddies will understand why I become very apprehensive of S-chips (e.g. sunsine, sino grandness, etc) once I sense that management might be up to some tricks in their sleeves, etc especially when the company has a bumper year and company still did not want to buy back any shares to boost investor's confidence...(this is my personal view - caveat emptor)”
He did not mention what the tricks Sino and Sunsine plays. He seems to be keen on capitalising on the Errata scandal to frighten shareholders of Sino Grandness and Sunsine and spreading scare.
He's just saying other s-chips, and he named some examples of s-chips (etc sunshine and sino-grand...). If like that also nedda moderate i don't know what to say ler.
Adagio must have heavy stake in china sunhine and sinograndness...
It does not mean you have to agree with him but what Curiousparty say is "Heart Truth". Either the S-chip got suspended, delisted or worse a big receivables but cannot take out like Sinotel. Frankly, I think the law in China is not implemented to punish such fraud case unless it become a national news, that why, you need the China President himself to push it. Long ago, SGX has been blinded by profit and no longer care if there is qualities in IPO company. If you are a trader, you may not feel it but if you are an investor like me, you cannot sleep well over it. To be direct, your $$ in S-Chip may disappear anytime.
(20-08-2014, 10:53 AM)rainmaker Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:54 AM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:14 AM)kikababoo Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 07:38 AM)Adagio Wrote: [ -> ]Any moderators here?
Do you think Curiousparty is justified in naming other S-Chips in his earlier post on Erata:
“Hence, I hope value buddies will understand why I become very apprehensive of S-chips (e.g. sunsine, sino grandness, etc) once I sense that management might be up to some tricks in their sleeves, etc especially when the company has a bumper year and company still did not want to buy back any shares to boost investor's confidence...(this is my personal view - caveat emptor)”
He did not mention what the tricks Sino and Sunsine plays. He seems to be keen on capitalising on the Errata scandal to frighten shareholders of Sino Grandness and Sunsine and spreading scare.
He's just saying other s-chips, and he named some examples of s-chips (etc sunshine and sino-grand...). If like that also nedda moderate i don't know what to say ler.
Adagio must have heavy stake in china sunhine and sinograndness...
It does not mean you have to agree with him but what Curiousparty say is "Heart Truth". Either the S-chip got suspended, delisted or worse a big receivables but cannot take out like Sinotel. Frankly, I think the law in China is not implemented to punish such fraud case unless it become a national news, that why, you need the China President himself to push it. Long ago, SGX has been blinded by profit and no longer care if there is qualities in IPO company. If you are a trader, you may not feel it but if you are an investor like me, you cannot sleep well over it. To be direct, your $$ in S-Chip may disappear anytime.
So, dangerous to invest into CM Pacific?
if any "investment guru" ask u to invest in S-chips, pls just do your full due diligence before plunging in.
If u have so much "risk-free" profits (in the order of $5mil to $10mil) from previous winnings to gamble in S-chips, then it is a different thing altogether.
(20-08-2014, 10:53 AM)rainmaker Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:54 AM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 08:14 AM)kikababoo Wrote: [ -> ] (20-08-2014, 07:38 AM)Adagio Wrote: [ -> ]Any moderators here?
Do you think Curiousparty is justified in naming other S-Chips in his earlier post on Erata:
“Hence, I hope value buddies will understand why I become very apprehensive of S-chips (e.g. sunsine, sino grandness, etc) once I sense that management might be up to some tricks in their sleeves, etc especially when the company has a bumper year and company still did not want to buy back any shares to boost investor's confidence...(this is my personal view - caveat emptor)”
He did not mention what the tricks Sino and Sunsine plays. He seems to be keen on capitalising on the Errata scandal to frighten shareholders of Sino Grandness and Sunsine and spreading scare.
He's just saying other s-chips, and he named some examples of s-chips (etc sunshine and sino-grand...). If like that also nedda moderate i don't know what to say ler.
Adagio must have heavy stake in china sunhine and sinograndness...
It does not mean you have to agree with him but what Curiousparty say is "Heart Truth". Either the S-chip got suspended, delisted or worse a big receivables but cannot take out like Sinotel. Frankly, I think the law in China is not implemented to punish such fraud case unless it become a national news, that why, you need the China President himself to push it. Long ago, SGX has been blinded by profit and no longer care if there is qualities in IPO company. If you are a trader, you may not feel it but if you are an investor like me, you cannot sleep well over it. To be direct, your $$ in S-Chip may disappear anytime.
(20-08-2014, 06:06 PM)Curiousparty Wrote: [ -> ]If u have so much "risk-free" profits (in the order of $5mil to $10mil) from previous winnings to gamble in S-chips, then it is a different thing altogether.
Another great example of mental accounting bias, ie. Realized profits (capital gains) are treated more frivolously than 'original capital' and hence may be regarded to be more readily risked (tikam account, anyone?)
Background:
http://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-760-p...l#pid91432
An interesting read on why S-chips should be avoided.
http://atans1.wordpress.com/tag/s-chips/
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extracted one story below:-
S-Chips: A warning on the prospectus?
SIAS president was reported in Wednesday’s ST as saying, “If ever a China company is listed in S’pore which has got business in China, management in China and money in China — please think 100 times before you put your money into the company.”
This should have been put on the prospectus of all S-Chips. But don’t you think it is too much to ask SGX to make this warning mandatory? It needs new listings, even tiny ones. At a time when there is talk of a billion dollar China co wanting to list here, HK is preparing for a US$20bn listing of AIG’s Asian life insurance operations. It could come as early as April this year.
But maybe responsible IPO managers should include this in bold lettering on the cover of future S-Chips IPOs? And with the appropriate changes, for any IPO where only the listing is here?