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one question always in my mind is:

why not revive the water division and make it profitable rather than go through a lot more trouble to find new investment, which they may or may not be familiar with?

or the company has given up its water division already?
$ Boleh, Malayu politicians Boleh

http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-bus...1qu27.html

Malaysia's Atomic Energy Licensing Board granted Lynas a temporary operating license to begin refining rare earths under certain conditions following public protests.
Lynas shares soared as much as 26.5 cents, or 20 per cent, to $1.60 in early trading to lead all stocks on the ASX200.
The Sydney-based miner will be able to start refining under conditions that include a plan for a permanent disposal facility and paying the government a $US50 million security bond in installments, the board said.
Advertisement: Story continues below
Malaysian authorities can elect to make the licence permanent if Lynas complies with conditions during the initial two-year period.
Other conditions, including a bond, have been attached to the licence.
The decision means Lynas can start shipping ore from it's Mt Weld mine to Malaysia for processing.
Lynas's plant would be the world's largest refinery of the minerals with total capacity of 22,000 tons per year should a second phase be approved and completed, the company said on November 16.
Its plan to start production in September was delayed after the government imposed extra safety standards recommended by an international review panel after residents expressed fears over possible radiation and contamination.
The Australian company, which has rejected the health concerns, has been unable to start exporting ore to Malaysia for refining after opening its $100 million Mount Weld mine in Western Australia in August.
Lynas's plant is near Kuantan, the capital city of the central Pahang state. Protests by residents and non-governmental organisations over the past 10 months included a march on Malaysia's parliament and the Australian High Commission in Kuala Lumpur.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/business/world-bus...z1o3UpXTE1
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topi...processing

All you need to know about manganese processing...
Toxicity
Manganese is one out of three toxic essential trace elements, which means that it is not only necessary for humans to survive, but it is also toxic when too high concentrations are present in a human body. When people do not live up to the recommended daily allowances their health will decrease. But when the uptake is too high health problems will also occur.

Manganese effects occur mainly in the respiratory tract and in the brains. Symptoms of manganese poisoning are hallucinations, forgetfulness and nerve damage. Manganese can also cause Parkinson, lung embolism and bronchitis. When men are exposed to manganese for a longer period of time they may become impotent.
A syndrome that is caused by manganese has symptoms such as schizophrenia, dullness, weak muscles, headaches and insomnia.

Mining
Manganese occurs principally as pyrolusite (MnO2), and to a lesser extent as rhodochrosite (MnCO3). More than 25 million tonnes are mined every year, representing 5 million tons of the metal, and reserves are estimated to exeed 3 billion tonnes of the metal. The main mining areas for manganese ores are South Africa, Russia, Ukraine, Georgia, Gabon and Australia.
Read more:

Prices
Prices of Flake
Prices of Ferromanganese and Silicomanganese


Supply and Demand
Demand for EMM and EMD in Lithium Ion batteries. Could this oncoming demand drive prices up?

Huge Incoming supply from S Africa's Kalagadi Manganese Mine in Northern Cape and Tshipi Borwa which is driving prices down.

Watch the Tshipi video-----Can S. Africa snatch the boom in Manganese from Australia by getting its infrastructure of rail and port ready?

How will the environmental effects of manganese poisoning and the enormous energy guzzling needs of manganese smelting be overcome ?
Do the smelting in Bakun, Sarawak ?/!!!
Boustead ended at $0.89 today, the highest close since 2nd Sept 2011.

A big laggard to the recent bull market. Are we witnessing a technical breakout? Advice from experienced chartists appreciated.

(05-03-2012, 05:28 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: [ -> ]Boustead ended at $0.89 today, the highest close since 2nd Sept 2011.

A big laggard to the recent bull market. Are we witnessing a technical breakout? Advice from experienced chartists appreciated.

Bad news. If it keeps behaving like this, how to accumulate? Tongue
(05-03-2012, 05:45 PM)Musicwhiz Wrote: [ -> ]
(05-03-2012, 05:28 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: [ -> ]Boustead ended at $0.89 today, the highest close since 2nd Sept 2011.

A big laggard to the recent bull market. Are we witnessing a technical breakout? Advice from experienced chartists appreciated.

Bad news. If it keeps behaving like this, how to accumulate? Tongue

Good news - go high go higher is easier than relentless averaging down in a never ending downtrend. Anyway, you have so much time to accumulate since Sept 2011 - its a case of buying not enough when the price is up.
(03-03-2012, 01:53 AM)Qiaofeng Wrote: [ -> ]This could potentially be a persistent black crow---- squawking in Boustead's backyard.

I know many of U love this stock and what I am writing sounds like heresy.

But, I wish FF Wong can somehow make a graceful exit b4 the environmental timebomb that the smelting process unleashes builds up and eventually explodes.

Thanks for your views, Qiaofeng. I am a person who accepts alternative views backed by evidence and objective reasoning, and I will not label you a "heretic" just because you mention something which puts Boustead in a bad light. In fact, it is people like you whom I admire because you are able to go against the flow to speak up against something which most people would be nodding their heads to, and that takes courage and conviction. So, please continue the sharing.

Based on the articles you posted and the facts about environmental pollution and poisoning, I can conclude that manganese smelting is definitely neither the safest nor more environmentally friendly activity out there. However, to put things in perspective, there are also many other industries out there (chemical, etc) which spew out equal amounts, if not more toxic chemicals and dump waste into rivers and jungles etc. I am not condoning OM Holdings or the Sarawak smelting plant for pollution, but just making a point to say that at least this is a legal process and the Government is backing the project up using a hydro-electric dam, rather than in China where illegal manganese activities have poisoned many human beings.

If we balance the fact that manganese is needed for steel production and construction of buildings, highways etc, which will benefit the human population; against the activities of errant and corrupted people who carry out such activities illegally, I think we cannot simply label ALL manganese mining as being harmful.

FF Wong is simply looking at the commercial aspect of the deal. I doubt he is fully aware of the environmental implications as you stated; but I also do not think it will become a full-blown crisis which Boustead may be saddled with. They are a partner to OM Holdings and will provide EPC and Engineering support, but should have no legal liability when it comes to the actual smelting and pollution (if any).

Just my views. Thanks.
(05-03-2012, 06:06 PM)greengiraffe Wrote: [ -> ]Good news - go high go higher is easier than relentless averaging down in a never ending downtrend. Anyway, you have so much time to accumulate since Sept 2011 - its a case of buying not enough when the price is up.

I think we have to agree to disagree then. For me, lower prices are always welcome as a way to profitably increase my holdings with a requisite margin of safety, and the OM Holdings announcement came after Sep 2011; and one always has limited funds to pump in at any one time without being over-stretched. Some of these funds were channelled into investments such as SIA Engineering which I purchased in Jan 2012.

Boustead has not fallen to a level attractive enough to accumulate more of. My last purchase of Boustead was made back in early October 2011 at a price of 78.5 cents/share.

Personally, I don't subscribe to the concept of uptrend or downtrend. To me, there is only under-valued, fairly valued or over-valued.
(06-03-2012, 12:39 AM)Musicwhiz Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for your views, Qiaofeng. I am a person who accepts alternative views backed by evidence and objective reasoning, and I will not label you a "heretic" just because you mention something which puts Boustead in a bad light. In fact, it is people like you whom I admire because you are able to go against the flow to speak up against something which most people would be nodding their heads to, and that takes courage and conviction. So, please continue the sharing.

Based on the articles you posted and the facts about environmental pollution and poisoning, I can conclude that manganese smelting is definitely neither the safest nor more environmentally friendly activity out there. However, to put things in perspective, there are also many other industries out there (chemical, etc) which spew out equal amounts, if not more toxic chemicals and dump waste into rivers and jungles etc. I am not condoning OM Holdings or the Sarawak smelting plant for pollution, but just making a point to say that at least this is a legal process and the Government is backing the project up using a hydro-electric dam, rather than in China where illegal manganese activities have poisoned many human beings.

If we balance the fact that manganese is needed for steel production and construction of buildings, highways etc, which will benefit the human population; against the activities of errant and corrupted people who carry out such activities illegally, I think we cannot simply label ALL manganese mining as being harmful.

FF Wong is simply looking at the commercial aspect of the deal. I doubt he is fully aware of the environmental implications as you stated; but I also do not think it will become a full-blown crisis which Boustead may be saddled with. They are a partner to OM Holdings and will provide EPC and Engineering support, but should have no legal liability when it comes to the actual smelting and pollution (if any).

Just my views. Thanks.

If U read "the Guardian" article carefully, the word "unapproved" was in inverted commas----meaning the local authorities in Hunan were aware of the activities .

China has approx. 37% of the world's rare earth resources yet it produces 97% of the current world supply.
Ever wonder why there is such a high level of production in China and not in the US and Australia (see the Graph)?

Bingo!---Lax environmental regulations in China and strict ones in the other two!!

Thanks to articles like the Guardian's that embarrass the local Hunan authorities so that they are distancing themselves; Beijing is taking many strong measures lately to clean up and limit such production thereby reducing supply and implemented export quotas etc----- but the same western nations and even Japan have protested when their supply chain were affected by these cuts.
Many are happy that the Chinese local authorities are allowing such toxic activities so long as it does not happen in their own backyards. Such hypocrisy is prevalent in the name of capitalism---- so they will happily buy or transport their raw material to such countries to smelt / process.
They are not illegal---just that environmental-wise--- the awareness, laws and standards are weak and will only change and evolve as underdeveloped portions (Hunan/ Sarawak) gets exploited then exposed in developing countries like China/Malaysia.

This is why I say it is a timebomb---- becos as awareness rise what was approved and acceptable can and do become illegal at some point.

I have looked at the Chemistry of the process and I understand the huge energy requirements in the smelting process to convert to ferromanganese or siliconmanganese or even bare managenese. I can understand the reason why a cheap source like the power from the Bakun hydroelectric dam can help in reducing costs. Costs however may not be the overriding factor as events in China (rare earth saga) or the Malaysian Lynas saga illustrate.

Look at the toxicity profiles----- U can google the medical studies of toxicity on communities near manganese mines in other parts of the world such as S Africa---and U will realise that legal or ilegal is just a label in name and time--- eventually, the communities will suffer and the timebomb will explode. The health consequences to human communities living and working nearby--- from too much manganese are just too horrific to ignore!!

To put it very bluntly--- this is called arbitraging---- seeking where the costs are lower; due to the less developed status of the political, legal and environmental knowhow in the countries where the smelting takes place.
Hi Qiaofeng,

Thanks for the info, and I understand where you are coming from.

Would it be safe to assume that for the Bakun project, there will be less or no communities living nearby which may be tainted by the smelting process? After all, as you said so yourself, China has lax regulations which ended up hurting numerous communities. Malaysian authorities have long planned for this project and so the relocation may have taken place.

As for the poisoning (human cost) versus the economic benefits, I guess we have to take the bad as well as the good. As is the case of over-fishing happening in the world's oceans as pointed out by d.o.g. for companies like China Fishery as well.

Let's wait and see how things turn out in the months to come.

Thanks.