Deceased family member without will - Do you always need a lawyer

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#1
I have a friend who recently have the following dilemma. The dad passed away suddenly leaving an account with X amount of stocks.

As the dad did not have a will, all monetary assets were frozen and to retrieve the stocks he was advice that he needs to appoint a lawyer to do so.

I wonder if any forum members encounter this kind of situation. Is there an alternative course of action?
Dividend Investing and More @ InvestmentMoats.com
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#2
Hi Drizzt,

A lawyer is not required but if after reading the links below the family is still confused on how to proceed, it is better that they seek a lawyer's advice.

Found these information in one of my old emails to a friend whose mom passed away.

Probate and Letter of Administration

http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/civil/page.a...id=10967#1

CPF Monies

http://ask-us.cpf.gov.sg/exploreMQA.asp?...5E23216%5E

Intestacy Law (Rules of Distribution)

http://www.wills.sg/singapore-probate-fa...-singapore
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#3
Your friend is definitely in a dilemma better appoint lawyer to resolve estate taxes. What should have happened had preparations been made was to get your friend father to sign 2-3 blank cheque. Then when almost at his end get the broker to sell off all the shares and once the funds in use the cheque to close out the bank account.

I have distant relative in this situation before but happen in the late 70's. The father was a wealthy timber businessman once he passed away immediately bank froze all his assets and family home was seized. We don't know much about the details but it was tax related we know it took a freaking hell of a long time > 10 years to resolve. After assets were frozen and family home was seized they got chased out of their house had to stay with relatives, can you imagine from wealthy became poor overnight really humbled experience and besides that nightmare kena chased by all kinds of creditors for money they didn't have any money to pay creditors because all their assets were frozen.

These days I hear the process is much faster, some say 2 years some say few months, have not gone thru this so I cannot say.

heard this hearsay that every day all the banks in singapore monitor obituary column when they see someone wealthy who is also their client just died they will freeze the bank account. If anybody in VB forum doing business please be careful about taxes or evading taxes, please don't imagine gov not aware, they are just waiting for their chance to take it back with interest and It's going to come back and bite your family when you are gone. If you are on your deathbed please don't be stubborn at the very least keep around 2-3 signed blank cheques.
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#4
Hmm I am quite sure estate tax was abolished in 2008.

As there is no will, your friend will have to obtain a letter of administration.

It is very time consuming to do it without a lawyer to do the leg work.
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#5
I googled around yes you are right estate taxes are abolished in 08.

But why the account get frozen Huh

Had a friend recently his surviving mother also the matriach passed away, they had a funeral and cremation the body but never advertized in obituary.

So apparently people are still not very trusting of authority.
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#6
Usually it is in the terms and conditions when you open an account with a bank, the bank has the right to freeze the account until such time when a letter of probate or a letter of administration is produced.

Ah I chanced upon this in google, http://www.ipto.gov.sg/ecitizen/help/TES/TES3-Help.html

This is if the estate has less than S$50,000, individuals can apply to this instead of to courts to help administer the estate. Cheaper than lawyers for sure.
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#7
If you are referring to stocks listed in SGX, the CDP website has a FAQ on the transfer procedure :

http://www.sgx.com/wps/wcm/connect/sgx_e...e+Deceased

If the link does not work, you can go to SGX website directly. and look under
Depository
--Applications/Updates
----Transfer of Securities
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#8
I had almost attempted to apply for a probate but ultimately, we found a easier way to withdraw the deposit.
But, yes, there is no need to use a lawyer. Technically, any english literate person should be able to do the job but it requires quite some efforts and times to complete the process.

The first step is to go to sub court to get the forms and the clerk will provide you with information to do the job.
If there is no hurry to withdraw the estate, you can save the lawyer fee by slowly completing the process.

As for freezing of bank account, it may not happen. If the account is not frozen and the family members have access to the ATM card of the deceased, it is possible to transfer the money out slowly via ATM machine.

Actually, I suspect that if the brokerage account is not suspended and you know the deceased's account password, it is possible to sell away the stocks and deposit the money into the non-frozen account for retrieval via ATM machine.

However, these are unorthodox ways and there are legal implications if any family member lodges a complaint.
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#9
hi guys thanks alot for the advices! certainly an eye opener. the incident happen too suddenly (think personal accident) and as such they couldn't do much about it. we will certainly explore the options and i will report back on the status to help others next time in the same position.
Dividend Investing and More @ InvestmentMoats.com
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#10
(29-06-2013, 08:11 PM)Drizzt Wrote: hi guys thanks alot for the advices! certainly an eye opener. the incident happen too suddenly (think personal accident) and as such they couldn't do much about it. we will certainly explore the options and i will report back on the status to help others next time in the same position.

Hi Drizzt

I have done it before recently, without a lawyer. Took me around 2 months (partly because I was overseas). If everything goes smoothly, could have taken 1.5 months or less. IMHO, if a dispute among beneficiaries is unlikely, DIY makes sense to me.

Please see here too. Why a will might not be necessary?
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