Fu Yu Corporation

(28-04-2013, 10:43 PM)KopiKat Wrote:

(25-04-2013, 11:32 AM)CY09 Wrote: Hi Disposal on assest may push NTA up but how much of the cash will be recycled tfor productive use is another questions. For this you may have to ask Fu yu's mgmt with they intend to do with the cash?

Looking at a quick snapshot of the Balance Sheet from Bloomberg Businessweek, they seem to enjoy keeping lots of cash, at least since FY09....

Probably once bitten, twice shy.

DBS letter of demand in 2007:

http://www.fuyucorp.com/images/IR/docume...cement.pdf

(27-04-2013, 12:23 PM)Townboy Wrote: It is interesting to see Fu Yu being mentioned here. I have posted the following 5cents worth biased POV in another forum.

If you look at 2012 quarter to quarter results, overall business is making positive progress. Revenue dropped but gross margin improved. I cannot say the business has finally turned around but it is not as bad as year to year results indicated (lost for 3 consecutive years). The cash and cash equivalents are at ~49mil (~6cts/share) excluding the latest disposal of assset. Current financial liabilities are close to 1.0mil. The current and last quarters results will be crucial.

2012 Q4 67mil (Rev) 0.98mil (Profit/Loss) 12% (Gross margin)
2012 Q3 76mil (Rev) -0.75mil (Profit/Loss) 9% (Gross margin)
2012 Q2 87mil (Rev) -2.91mil (Profit/Loss) 8% (Gross margin)
2012 Q1 84mil (Rev) -4.31mil (Profit/Loss) 6% (Gross margin)

- vested

Hi Townboy,

Fu Yu just reported 2013 Q1 profit of $810k reversing from 2012 Q1's loss of $4.31 million.

Two consecutive quarters in the black now.

---

From the latest results, cash equivalent increased from $46 million to $48.6 million.

Almost negligible bank loans (less than $180k) compared to cash on hand.

NAV increased to 21.56 cts vs current share price of 6.1 cts. (vs net cash of 6.6 cts)

Above does not include the cash from the asset disposal announced on 24 Apr 2013.

Hi Persia, you are fast. Fu Yu is looking more interesting and numbers look good except gross margin dropped to 9.8% from last quarter of 12%. Dividend this year or too early to say? Hopefully Fu Yu is no more Fool You :-)

(25-04-2013, 10:05 AM)persia Wrote: Noted from the latest announcement of asset disposal on SGX, the NTA could hit 21.98 cts.

Cash on hand will be up from current 6.29 cents to around 7.9 cents?

Anyone can help to verify? Current price seems to be cheap at 6.1 cents.

There would be significant effect from LCTH minority interest as Fu Yu owns 70.64% of LCTH. Thus, the cash attributable to shareholders should be less.

(16-05-2013, 12:23 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(25-04-2013, 10:05 AM)persia Wrote: Noted from the latest announcement of asset disposal on SGX, the NTA could hit 21.98 cts.

Cash on hand will be up from current 6.29 cents to around 7.9 cents?

Anyone can help to verify? Current price seems to be cheap at 6.1 cents.

There would be significant effect from LCTH minority interest as Fu Yu owns 70.64% of LCTH. Thus, the cash attributable to shareholders should be less.

Another thing is, although Fu Yu has S$51.8M at the Group level, there's only S$6.9M at the Company level. At LCTH, there's RM54.8M at Group and RM4.6M at Company (fm AR2012). Of that, no idea how much cash is with CASB although it'll be sold for RM29.5M. The net impact to the Cash at LCTH can be either way but unlikely to increase by RM29.5M.

I also noticed that LCTH used to have RM100M as recent as 1-Jan-11...

I suppose if you're hoping for a Special Div from all the Cash, you'll have to dig further to see if it can be easily transferred to the Company level at Fu Yu?

(16-05-2013, 09:10 AM)KopiKat Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 12:23 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(25-04-2013, 10:05 AM)persia Wrote: Noted from the latest announcement of asset disposal on SGX, the NTA could hit 21.98 cts.

Cash on hand will be up from current 6.29 cents to around 7.9 cents?

Anyone can help to verify? Current price seems to be cheap at 6.1 cents.

There would be significant effect from LCTH minority interest as Fu Yu owns 70.64% of LCTH. Thus, the cash attributable to shareholders should be less.

Another thing is, although Fu Yu has S$51.8M at the Group level, there's only S$6.9M at the Company level. At LCTH, there's RM54.8M at Group and RM4.6M at Company (fm AR2012). Of that, no idea how much cash is with CASB although it'll be sold for RM29.5M. The net impact to the Cash at LCTH can be either way but unlikely to increase by RM29.5M.

I also noticed that LCTH used to have RM100M as recent as 1-Jan-11...

I suppose if you're hoping for a Special Div from all the Cash, you'll have to dig further to see if it can be easily transferred to the Company level at Fu Yu?

hmmm.. i always wanted to ask, what's the difference between company and group? I also look at group figures only... What are the implications??

(16-05-2013, 09:10 AM)KopiKat Wrote: I suppose if you're hoping for a Special Div from all the Cash, you'll have to dig further to see if it can be easily transferred to the Company level at Fu Yu?

To add to the insult, the Company has "Accumulated Losses" (i.e. no retained earnings). It's a convenient excuse, with the auditor's blessing, for not paying dividends.

The next logical question becomes, "How did it get there?"

maybe there isn't really that much cash inside???
I smell a rat with this company, just my gut feel

(16-05-2013, 09:35 AM)Greenrookie Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 09:10 AM)KopiKat Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 12:23 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(25-04-2013, 10:05 AM)persia Wrote: Noted from the latest announcement of asset disposal on SGX, the NTA could hit 21.98 cts.

Cash on hand will be up from current 6.29 cents to around 7.9 cents?

Anyone can help to verify? Current price seems to be cheap at 6.1 cents.

There would be significant effect from LCTH minority interest as Fu Yu owns 70.64% of LCTH. Thus, the cash attributable to shareholders should be less.

Another thing is, although Fu Yu has S$51.8M at the Group level, there's only S$6.9M at the Company level. At LCTH, there's RM54.8M at Group and RM4.6M at Company (fm AR2012). Of that, no idea how much cash is with CASB although it'll be sold for RM29.5M. The net impact to the Cash at LCTH can be either way but unlikely to increase by RM29.5M.

I also noticed that LCTH used to have RM100M as recent as 1-Jan-11...

I suppose if you're hoping for a Special Div from all the Cash, you'll have to dig further to see if it can be easily transferred to the Company level at Fu Yu?

hmmm.. i always wanted to ask, what's the difference between company and group? I also look at group figures only... What are the implications??

From investopedia,

Definition of 'Consolidated Financial Statements'
The combined financial statements of a parent company and its subsidiaries.

Take Fu Yu's Cash as an example. This Cash at the Group level will be equal the sum total of all the Cash at the Company (Fu Yu) and all their subsidiaries. At the subsidiary level, some (if not most) of the cash will be required for their Working Capital needs or any other needs eg. LCTH seems to continue to be building factories (perhaps relocating to lower cost regions).

That's why I think that those hoping for Special Div payout will have to study more in depth to see if such cash at the subsidiary level are really considered excess and can be transferred (eg. Dividend payout or Capital Reduction) to the Fu Yu company level. A possible example would be the sale of CASB by LCTH. Perhaps, LCTH will have no use for the cash from this sale and pay it out?

I also only recently start to appreciate the differences between Group & Company when I had to make a quick decision whether to put some money into F&N ie. to be able to differentiate that their huge Cash was at Company while the huge Debts mainly at subsidiaries.

Note : I'm not an accountant and my understanding will likely not be totally correct.... I wished I'd not fallen asleep when I was taking night classes on Accounting modules, especially on Consolidated FS, back when I was so much younger...

(16-05-2013, 10:17 AM)KopiKat Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 09:35 AM)Greenrookie Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 09:10 AM)KopiKat Wrote:

(16-05-2013, 12:23 AM)smallcaps Wrote:

(25-04-2013, 10:05 AM)persia Wrote: Noted from the latest announcement of asset disposal on SGX, the NTA could hit 21.98 cts.

Cash on hand will be up from current 6.29 cents to around 7.9 cents?

Anyone can help to verify? Current price seems to be cheap at 6.1 cents.

There would be significant effect from LCTH minority interest as Fu Yu owns 70.64% of LCTH. Thus, the cash attributable to shareholders should be less.

Another thing is, although Fu Yu has S$51.8M at the Group level, there's only S$6.9M at the Company level. At LCTH, there's RM54.8M at Group and RM4.6M at Company (fm AR2012). Of that, no idea how much cash is with CASB although it'll be sold for RM29.5M. The net impact to the Cash at LCTH can be either way but unlikely to increase by RM29.5M.

I also noticed that LCTH used to have RM100M as recent as 1-Jan-11...

I suppose if you're hoping for a Special Div from all the Cash, you'll have to dig further to see if it can be easily transferred to the Company level at Fu Yu?

hmmm.. i always wanted to ask, what's the difference between company and group? I also look at group figures only... What are the implications??

From investopedia,

Definition of 'Consolidated Financial Statements'
The combined financial statements of a parent company and its subsidiaries.

Take Fu Yu's Cash as an example. This Cash at the Group level will be equal the sum total of all the Cash at the Company (Fu Yu) and all their subsidiaries. At the subsidiary level, some (if not most) of the cash will be required for their Working Capital needs or any other needs eg. LCTH seems to continue to be building factories (perhaps relocating to lower cost regions).

That's why I think that those hoping for Special Div payout will have to study more in depth to see if such cash at the subsidiary level are really considered excess and can be transferred (eg. Dividend payout or Capital Reduction) to the Fu Yu company level. A possible example would be the sale of CASB by LCTH. Perhaps, LCTH will have no use for the cash from this sale and pay it out?

I also only recently start to appreciate the differences between Group & Company when I had to make a quick decision whether to put some money into F&N ie. to be able to differentiate that their huge Cash was at Company while the huge Debts mainly at subsidiaries.

Note : I'm not an accountant and my understanding will likely not be totally correct.... I wished I'd not fallen asleep when I was taking night classes on Accounting modules, especially on Consolidated FS, back when I was so much younger...

Thanks a lot!

Pardon my ignorance, Where do you find info of cash level of subisdaries?? Foot note of AR? under which section, can't seem to find those info...

How about associate? are they tabulated under "Share of profit from equity accounted associates?"

The amount reflected is already based on the % owned? For example, group owned 40% of associate, and the "Share of profit from equity accounted associates?" is say 1 million, the the profits from associate is 2.5 milllion???