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Retirement
11-11-2017, 04:10 PM. (This post was last modified: 11-11-2017, 04:10 PM by Temperament.)
Post: #1
Retirement
Blush Huh Tongue
=========== Signature ===========
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.

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11-11-2017, 04:14 PM. (This post was last modified: 11-11-2017, 04:18 PM by Temperament.)
Post: #2
RE: Retirement
i have some difficulty in posting the above.

It does not allows me to post at all.

i have to use attachment to be able to come to this "Quick Reply" page.

It's the same at any other forum.

Help!

i am "Bamboozled".
=========== Signature ===========
WB:-

1) Rule # 1, do not lose money.
2) Rule # 2, refer to # 1.
3) Not until you can manage your emotions, you can manage your money.

Truism of Investments.
A) Buying a security is buying RISK not Return
B) You can control RISK (to a certain level, hopefully only.) But definitely not the outcome of the Return.

NB:-
My signature is meant for psychoing myself. No offence to anyone. i am trying not to lose money unnecessary anymore.

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11-11-2017, 06:39 PM.
Post: #3
RE: Retirement
1) Putting money to work induces risk, and is therefore stressful. The stresses of investing is directly proportional to one's percentage of net worth that is put to work, and also the confidence one has in their ability. So if one feels stressed about their investments, they can either reduces their exposure, or up their ability (relative to the complexity of the choice of investment). I choose to mitigate my risk by spending plenty of time to read and think about my investment choice (i.e. companies) and their valuation.

2) Everyone would like to have more money by making investments, but not everyone is interested to do the work that is required. Such individuals should feel free to allow a trusted professional to manage their monies for them. Or buy an index fund. Or buy government-backed bonds. Or even choose not invest at all. Losing a little of your money to inflation is better than losing most (if not all) of your money.

3) Greed is a powerful force which causes us to overstay our welcome at the party. And the fuel to this force is (fast) rising asset prices. And when things are going good, knowing when it is enough may be our biggest stumbling block.

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11-11-2017, 10:43 PM.
Post: #4
RE: Retirement
temperament,

To avoid copyright issues, its safer and simpler to just add the web links:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/took-mone...41903.html


There!
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Just google singapore man of leisure

http://singaporemanofleisure.blogspot.com/
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11-11-2017, 11:26 PM.
Post: #5
RE: Retirement
Nice story and it is inspiring. With slightly more than 50,000 invested when the index was 208, she now has close to a million dollars. At age 62, this is a good sum of money to have and to live comfortably in retirement. Quite amazing, she has done nothing else other than putting the money in the fund more than 30 years ago.

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23-10-2018, 09:32 PM.
Post: #6
RE: Retirement
Here is a local success story of financial independence at a relatively young age of 39. His advice can be summed up as earn as much as you can, save as much as you can & invest as profitably as you can. I guess it is also a given that you have to start your planning as young as you can in order to retire from the corporate world as early as you can.

His expenditure assumption for retirement life is at $2000 per household which is a little low for me (I think $2000 per adult may be closer to the mark if one wants to retire comfortably). In his article, he suggested simple investment strategies like REITS & high yielding STI index stocks that even the man in the street can implement.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/com...y-10851704

In fact, there is a decade old movement called FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) and you can google for other inspirational success stories as well. Here is evidence that with a bit of advance thinking & research, one could achieve financial independence early in life.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/style...early.html

I guess I was unwittingly part of this movement without realising it. The only thing I would add is to not to forget preparing for life after work. So often, our jobs have become such a big part of our lives that it defines a lot of who we are and we become lost without it. Apart from financial planning, you need to consciously cultivate a balanced life with wider non-work interests & social circles. What is the meaning of life for you?

It has been more than 2 years since I left the corporate world at 48. I am still enjoying the freedoms that come with it and have not regretted the situation. Although the timing was not what I planned for (retrenchment), it was a secret yearning I had for some time. Upon hindsight, it was a moment of serendipity & thanksgiving once I did my sums and realised I made it (the separation compensation was the cherry on the cake - a good reason to stay put in a good company vs job hop). My story here -> https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-8555...#pid145319

Hopefully, you will be encouraged by the hope that FIRE is very possible indeed!

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23-10-2018, 10:20 PM.
Post: #7
RE: Retirement
I find it difficult to cultivate interests outside of work and my social circle. Like most Singaporeans, work takes up a big part of my life. A typical work day is 10 to 12 hours. By the time weekend rolls around, I just want to slack at home and binge watch TV programs to destress and distract my mind from work matters.
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You can count on the greed of man for the next recession to happen.

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23-10-2018, 11:36 PM. (This post was last modified: 23-10-2018, 11:39 PM by dreamybear.)
Post: #8
RE: Retirement
(23-10-2018, 10:20 PM)LionFlyer Wrote: I find it difficult to cultivate interests outside of work and my social circle. Like most Singaporeans, work takes up a big part of my life. A typical work day is 10 to 12 hours. By the time weekend rolls around, I just want to slack at home and binge watch TV programs to destress and distract my mind from work matters.

I fully agree - In my "prime", by the time I come back home from regular 10/12 hour workday(IT sector), my mind cannot function properly anymore(sometimes fall asleep in taxi). In IT, ocassionally we have to work on weekends as well and have to constantly go for IT certification exams. On top of it, we have to be "involved parents" to engage our kids coz they are very stressed as well. Not to mention visiting parents, exercise, etc .... Confused

So, WHERE GOT TIME ??? Huh

It is no wonder then, that I encounter people having cancer cases more and more frequently, given the ultra stressful lives we are living. Angel
Personally, after being "enlightened" by those interactions, I am in the midst of converting from living a frugal life to YOLO !   Blush

But .... is there a dreamybear FIRE thesis ?   Heart

Well, I think it is best to start learning abt investing and saving $$ as early as possible(e.g. JC, NS or university days). Try investing(even small amt as soon as able to open CDP account). It is inevitable to make some investing mistakes. Once a person starts work, ideally(if realistically possible) - marry young (save time to find soul mate and social activities at the same time), have kids as late as medically recommended possible(save time to mind the kids). From those time savings, spend some time to refine investing(maybe a bit during work day, more during Wkends/PH). Having said that, valuebuddies is a MUST read, seriously.  I feel once the momentum of learning investing from young is started, it is much easier to progress.  Wink

Hope the younger ones can benefit from our experience. Heart

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24-10-2018, 09:04 PM. (This post was last modified: 24-10-2018, 09:17 PM by tanjm.)
Post: #9
RE: Retirement
(23-10-2018, 09:32 PM)psslo Wrote: Here is a local success story of financial independence at a relatively young age of 39. His advice can be summed up as earn as much as you can, save as much as you can & invest as profitably as you can. I guess it is also a given that you have to start your planning as young as you can in order to retire from the corporate world as early as you can.

His expenditure assumption for retirement life is at $2000 per household which is a little low for me (I think $2000 per adult may be closer to the mark if one wants to retire comfortably). In his article, he suggested simple investment strategies like REITS & high yielding STI index stocks that even the man in the street can implement.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/com...y-10851704

In fact, there is a decade old movement called FIRE (Financial Independence, Retire Early) and you can google for other inspirational success stories as well. Here is evidence that with a bit of advance thinking & research, one could achieve financial independence early in life.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/style...early.html

I guess I was unwittingly part of this movement without realising it. The only thing I would add is to not to forget preparing for life after work. So often, our jobs have become such a big part of our lives that it defines a lot of who we are and we become lost without it. Apart from financial planning, you need to consciously cultivate a balanced life with wider non-work interests & social circles. What is the meaning of life for you?

It has been more than 2 years since I left the corporate world at 48. I am still enjoying the freedoms that come with it and have not regretted the situation. Although the timing was not what I planned for (retrenchment), it was a secret yearning I had for some time. Upon hindsight, it was a moment of serendipity & thanksgiving once I did my sums and realised I made it (the separation compensation was the cherry on the cake - a good reason to stay put in a good company vs job hop). My story here -> https://www.valuebuddies.com/thread-8555...#pid145319

Hopefully, you will be encouraged by the hope that FIRE is very possible indeed!

The FIRE movement needs to be taken with a large grain of salt and adapted to one's circumstances.

The most important message of the FIRE movement is probably : budgeting is everything. If you adapt your living to your budget, you can get by. I agree with this important point. But you still need a realistic sense of your long term consumption and investment experience. More below.

On the CNA article in question. A number of points.
- if the commentators investment experience is confined largely within the last 10 years, then he will have a rose tinted glass toward investment returns. It is true that in the long run, investment returns will be fairly good. However, timing matters when you are withdrawing money. If you are withdrawing money for retirement and if the market tanks, you are withdrawing at the worse possible time. In reality, you need to factor in a non-volatile fund (fixed income perhaps) to tide you through periods of high market turmoil - i would say minimal 3 years. Another way to do is to have a "balanced fund". say 70:30 equities:fixed income and rebalance annually - if markets go down, sell fixed income, if markets go up, sell equities. Maintain the 70:30 ratio. That means you trade off your average income for volatility which in turn means you need more assets to begin with.

- His withdrawal rate of 4% of 600k works out to be 24k equal to expenses. He apparently lives in a inflationless world with constant dividends.

- In the real world, we all worry about providing for parents. In my case, I'm in my 50s with 3 still very healthy parents. This includes not just expenses, but also healthcare and possibly disability care. Perhaps he and his wife have rich parents or dead ones.

- In the real world, we have to worry about our own life events. Major illnesses for example. Dementia and disability care. One way to budget this in your retirement calculation is to calculate how much it would cost to insure against it. Then add it to your budget (without necessarily buying insurance).

- if you retire at 40, you potentially have another 50-60 years of life left. In 1914 and 1945, we had major worldwide life altering events. Climate change may happen. A regional war could potentially break out. Money becomes useless. The Singapore economy could go the direction of Greece. In half a century, literally almost anything can happen.

- if you retire at 40, you are unlikely to make much use of CPF LIFE as your CPF savings are not likely to be high. CPF LIFE is a very low cost way of insuring against longevity risk. You try getting a private annuity and you can see the difference.

- Last. With good technology, it is not impossible to entertain a future (especially for someone as young as him) for a life span that is past 100 years. Maybe even 120.

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25-10-2018, 11:55 AM. (This post was last modified: 25-10-2018, 11:57 AM by specuvestor.)
Post: #10
RE: Retirement
I think VB tanjm gave a more balanced view and may I add:

1) Living BELOW our means is key, which is a trade off in desired lifestyle. It is also different story if spouse is working (one of the example in the article which is perplexing) or if there is pension or social safety net, or you are born rich. Rich kids saying they are retiring early or pursuing dreams in unprofitable arts or food or fashion business etc irks me

2) Asians generally still think about parents and children

3) Medical insurance is a big must that has to be netted out first. It is the low probability high risk events that has to be hedged.

4) Amazing but 100 years ago there is no retirement planning cause on average people live to 60. Now if one retires early say 45, one really have to think of how to live through the next "half-life". Personally I have no wish to "retire" if ever possible. Too many unintended consequences and side effects including physical, marriage, financial etc
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Before you speak, listen. Before you write, think. Before you spend, earn. Before you invest, investigate. Before you criticize, wait. Before you pray, forgive. Before you quit, try. Before you retire, save. Before you die, give. –William A. Ward

Think Asset-Business-Structure (ABS)

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