(07-07-2012, 10:14 PM)d.o.g. Wrote: [ -> ]CityFarmer Wrote:The company is ethically obligated to the shareholder, either via IPO subscription or via secondary market. The shareholder right is transfer with the sale of the share in secondary market.
Shareholder rights are a legal entitlement. They are transferred with the sale.
Ethical obligations are a different matter and are entirely at the discretion of the controlling shareholder to honour. They are under no legal compulsion to accord the new shareholder the same respect or deference showed to the old shareholder.
That is to say, if dividends are distributed, ALL shareholders will share. That is their legal right. But the controlling shareholder is not REQUIRED to declare dividends to the new set of shareholders even if he is ethically obligated to do so. Indeed, the appearance of an unwelcome shareholder may well induce the controlling shareholder to reduce or even omit dividends, in order to frustrate the unwelcome shareholder into leaving. In such a case, the controlling shareholder may not be behaving ethically, but he is certainly acting legally.
Again, I am not saying that I agree with such thinking, just that such thinking can be seen to be valid from the controlling shareholder's perspective.
First of all, i am sure we are talking about ethical obligations, rather than legal obligations.
I am also sure we are discussing an 3rd party thinking i.e. Controlling Shareholders, rather than d.o.g. thinking
The un-fulfill legal obligations will lead to monetary loss (and/or freedom loss) of a person, due to legal action in court.
The un-fulfill ethical obligations will lead to lost of trustworthiness of a person, due to a "tyrant-like" behavior.
I agreed that controlling shareholder is entirely at his discretion to honor ethical obligation, but it will not be done without cost, cost of losing the trustworthiness.
i just finished reading the hardcopy annual report received this week, and I am a bit worried that this company may be taken off listing soon considering its strong self-regenerating abilities of $. I am realli impressed by and love to keep on reading Chairman Henry Tay's words. I think he is a good writer too.
It'll be a sad day if another great company gets bought over. If the day does comes, I hope it'll be for a irrestible price for minorities like you and me cannot say no to.
But that's the whole idea of investing isnt it? To continue to search for under-valued great companies and hope the market recognises its potential.
I finally found some time to read the Chairman's statement, after being piqued by so many good comments in this forum. Yes, rather well written with a lot of flowery language and rather informative on the market and industry. As I'm a newbie to Hour Glass, I'm curious to know if they have any presence in Macau and if not, have anyone read of their plans there? Some extracts (pg 17/96) from the Chairman's statement which made me curious,
As an Asian city, luxury watch sales in Macau is second to that of Hong Kong. This was a development that had unfolded gradually over the past decade but arguably, was a trend one could have identified early on.
Also if not, why not? Since they have presence in Japan and Australia and is even planning to expand in Australia.
THG still holds on to about 54 million shares of GEMS TV.
In an AGM 3 - 4 years back, Crabcrab asked Chairman Tay would he be considering distribute out the GEMS TV shares to its shareholders in proportion and so that shareholders could decide on themselves whether to keep or dispose the shares.
His answer:" It is going to be a very expensive excercise." He did not elaborate further......
Today, GEMS TV shares are worth just less than 3 cts......
(08-07-2012, 06:44 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]I finally found some time to read the Chairman's statement, after being piqued by so many good comments in this forum. Yes, rather well written with a lot of flowery language and rather informative on the market and industry. As I'm a newbie to Hour Glass, I'm curious to know if they have any presence in Macau and if not, have anyone read of their plans there? Some extracts (pg 17/96) from the Chairman's statement which made me curious,
As an Asian city, luxury watch sales in Macau is second to that of Hong Kong. This was a development that had unfolded gradually over the past decade but arguably, was a trend one could have identified early on.
Also if not, why not? Since they have presence in Japan and Australia and is even planning to expand in Australia.
instead of macau, maybe u should look at hong kong where i recalled he said the watch market is 3 times bigger than sg, and it is pleasant to note that THG is opening a branch at the Landmark, Central Station in Hong Kong. Anyone who has been to HK will know what kind of location is that. top grade.
(08-07-2012, 11:39 PM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ] (08-07-2012, 06:44 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]I finally found some time to read the Chairman's statement, after being piqued by so many good comments in this forum. Yes, rather well written with a lot of flowery language and rather informative on the market and industry. As I'm a newbie to Hour Glass, I'm curious to know if they have any presence in Macau and if not, have anyone read of their plans there? Some extracts (pg 17/96) from the Chairman's statement which made me curious,
As an Asian city, luxury watch sales in Macau is second to that of Hong Kong. This was a development that had unfolded gradually over the past decade but arguably, was a trend one could have identified early on.
Also if not, why not? Since they have presence in Japan and Australia and is even planning to expand in Australia.
instead of macau, maybe u should look at hong kong where i recalled he said the watch market is 3 times bigger than sg, and it is pleasant to note that THG is opening a branch at the Landmark, Central Station in Hong Kong. Anyone who has been to HK will know what kind of location is that. top grade.
Yes, I saw that. I re-phrase my Q - Why not Macau (No.2 mkt in Asia) instead of Australia (he mentioned a 2nd store as part of their expansion plans for FY13) then? Is Australia mkt bigger since it may not be part of Asia in their classification? Oh ya, why Japan in the first place? It used to be a bigger market than Macau? Or can we assume that Japan and Australia being 1st World countries would likely have strong demand for luxury goods?
I wonder how many will give Warren advice as to what he should do or should not do? Co-drivers anyone?
Will they be the ones "attacking" Warren for not investing in tech companies before 2000? Causing Berkshire to lag behind the market and thus not taking care of shareholders' interests?
Or how about Warren supporting Obama's higher tax rates for corporations may hurt bottom-line earnings?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-06...stors.html
LOL! 20 shares maciam "owns" the company...
Come to think of it, if the company we worked in is listed, why don't we buy a few lots and start a discussion with our controlling shareholder CEO or Chairman on what is a fair compensation for him and his team?
(not vested)
(08-07-2012, 11:55 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I saw that. I re-phrase my Q - Why not Macau (No.2 mkt in Asia) instead of Australia (he mentioned a 2nd store as part of their expansion plans for FY13) then? Is Australia mkt bigger since it may not be part of Asia in their classification? Oh ya, why Japan in the first place? It used to be a bigger market than Macau? Or can we assume that Japan and Australia being 1st World countries would likely have strong demand for luxury goods?
the expansion into Hong Kong, Japan, Australia and Thailand were made a long time ago in 1994, 1996, 1989 and 1994.
At that point in time, China is still a dragon that's just about to wake up despite its economical achievement. The link below is the statistics for 2001 where Hong Kong is 2nd largest player and Japan the 3rd.
http://www.fhs.ch/statistics/basel_02.pdf
In the 1990s, THG over-diversified and was on an acquisition spree of watch brand, Milano pizza, Mondial-Glayz Jewellery, property, Ilanjian perfume and e.t.c. Thus, the uncle and nephew team seemed to have surpassed the founder with their conservative approach in slowly expanding. In fact, it is Michael Tay that suggested selling away the 2 watch brands when he came back from his training in Switzerland.
As for Macau, what the Chairman suggested is that Singapore will grow to become where Macau is today. Hong Kong is still the number 1 luxury watch market globally, and thus I am glad that they have finally taken the step to open another store there.
(09-07-2012, 09:58 AM)shanrui_91 Wrote: [ -> ] (08-07-2012, 11:55 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, I saw that. I re-phrase my Q - Why not Macau (No.2 mkt in Asia) instead of Australia (he mentioned a 2nd store as part of their expansion plans for FY13) then? Is Australia mkt bigger since it may not be part of Asia in their classification? Oh ya, why Japan in the first place? It used to be a bigger market than Macau? Or can we assume that Japan and Australia being 1st World countries would likely have strong demand for luxury goods?
the expansion into Hong Kong, Japan, Australia and Thailand were made a long time ago in 1994, 1996, 1989 and 1994.
At that point in time, China is still a dragon that's just about to wake up despite its economical achievement. The link below is the statistics for 2001 where Hong Kong is 2nd largest player and Japan the 3rd.
http://www.fhs.ch/statistics/basel_02.pdf
In the 1990s, THG over-diversified and was on an acquisition spree of watch brand, Milano pizza, Mondial-Glayz Jewellery, property, Ilanjian perfume and e.t.c. Thus, the uncle and nephew team seemed to have surpassed the founder with their conservative approach in slowly expanding. In fact, it is Michael Tay that suggested selling away the 2 watch brands when he came back from his training in Switzerland.
As for Macau, what the Chairman suggested is that Singapore will grow to become where Macau is today. Hong Kong is still the number 1 luxury watch market globally, and thus I am glad that they have finally taken the step to open another store there.
Thx! Now I think I can understand why they expanded into Japan (3rd) and Thailand (12th) based on the 2001 list you posted. Australia was not in the Top 15, so my guess is perhaps it's due to their familiarity with the country as they both (Henry & Jannie) graduated from Monash Uni. Also, Kenny Chan (Group MD). Seems like a very strong Monash Uni alumnis' presence in the senior mgmt of the co.
Yes, I also understand the part on the Chairman saying Singapore luxury market can grow like Macau, driven mainly by their casino growth (but one key difference is our casino will unlikely grow beyond the current 2 vs Macau 33) and the similar market size. Still, I can't understand why no plan for starting a store in Macau, especially since they're supposed to be embarking on more aggressive expansions from FY13.