(11-10-2013, 01:14 PM)specuvestor Wrote: This is my last response to you on this matter because I sense you think the rest of us are "either stupid or lazy". I have stated previously that you should stick to stocks analysis and leave econs alone. I stand by that.
You yourself said US will never default only because of the politician. And like you say, debt ceiling is a legislative structure that prevents the current admin from overspending. The reason is under fiat it can never default because under the fiat system people keep their reserves in US$ and not gold. Hence US can print indefinitely until people loses faith in the US$, which is the MAIN reason why UST cannot go default because it affects that faith/ confidence. I cannot understand your flip flopping logic and not even sure if you understood what you are saying. You seem to understand but cannot piece them together. My guess is you are early thirties.
Being a reserve currency is so powerful that Euro wanted to have some of that and definitely RMB will be next.
The US is both government and independent fed and as a whole they can print and monetise. The US debt is government liabilities and US money is Fed liabilities. But effectively there are separated yet related like a parent and the subsidiary.
If you are opening a sweat shop and issue your own IOU to be used internally, that is money. If the banks accept your IOU that is money, but I doubt it. Money is a VERY SHORT TERM DEBT as a medium of exchange. Your safra vouchers is money as long as people accepts it. Dollarised Argentina issued their own IOUs previously as well.
If you are unable to keep up with the discussion but resort to demeaning remarks to the forumers, and not just towards 1 or 2 forumers, maybe majority wisdom is wisodm afterall.
If you have such sense "I sense you think the rest of us are "either stupid or lazy"", I can only say that you are so full of yourself, that you think any other different opinion is an attack rather than an argument.
Let's examine my rebuttal to your point that US government can print unlimited amount of money. I said "If the US government has such power, why would there be a debt ceiling issue? Just print and print, no need debt."
Firstly, issuing debt of US government is not printing money. Apparently, you still don't get the idea of it. If we can't agree on this, there is no point to further argument. We need establish the fundamental first. Since you are not responding any more, there is no point any more.
We are fundamentally different on what's money. So agree to disagree?
Some people think that gold is money. Sorry, unless you live a few hundred years ago. In modern period, gold, just like any other valuable thing, is an asset other people are willing to pay for with money. In United States, the only money is the US dollar, bill or electronic. Bill are issued by federal reserve(Federal Reserve Notes, but printed by US government and bought by the Fed). Electronic money is issued by commercial banks(not the Fed, but regulated by the Fed) in the form of deposit. Money in US only exists in these two forms and can be exchanged in these two forms(you can withdraw your deposit in Chase bank in the form of cash from the counters or ATMs or you can deposit your notes into Chase bank and get a deposit). Other than these two forms, it is not money. At most, it is something of value.