I find it interesting that folks need EIU to tell them what the cost of living is. Surely, you have better data points / first hand information than them?
As a comparison, what are the monthly pay for fresh graduates in the following countries?
Singapore ~ SGD3,000
Hong Kong ~ HKD12,778 (SGD2,100)
Malaysia ~ MYR2,800 (SGD1,100)
Taiwan ~ TWD28,000 (SGD1,200)
As well traveled Singaporeans, most folks would have been to the above countries. I will leave forumners to draw their own conclusions.
This study is aimed at expat cost of living and is not representative - unless you are an expat :-). Even for expats, it is flawed. Most foreign professionals I know do not own a car - they prefer to take a taxi (among the cheapest in the developed world). They also are very happy to be in Singapore due to the low tax regime compared with their home country.
Also it is priced in USD and SGD has been rising a lot in the last 5-10 years.
Even if you stick to just expat, a better way to conduct this study would be the take the cost of goods (in local ccy) and divide it by the annual after tax pay of the expat. This will take out currency and take into account earning power. Unfortunately it is also more expensive to conduct this kind of study due to the need to survey salaries.
The study that was done used a standard basket of goods and services. Very cheap and easy to do - you might even be able to do it online. Too easy. Take the quality of the study with a pinch of salt.
(05-03-2014, 06:43 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:the cost of living has absolutely nothing to do with the standard of living
Eh... then how do you explain the following...
World's 10 most expensive cities to live in 2014
1. Singapore
2. Paris
3. Oslo, Norway
4. Zurich, Switzerland
5. Sydney
6. Caracas, Venezuela
6. Geneva, Switzerland
6. Melbourne
6. Tokyo
7. Copenhagen, Denmark
and the following list:
World's 10 least expensive cities to live in 2014
122. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
123. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
124. Panama City, Panama
124. Bucharest, Romania
126. Algiers, Algeria
127. Damascus, Syria
127. Kathmandu, Nepal
129. New Delhi
130. Karachi, Pakistan
131. Mumbai, India
In mathematical term, the correlation between cost of living and standard of living is very very positive.
They are all cities. The correlation may not be positive for smaller settlements.
Even when correlation is clearly positive, it may not be linear. i.e. once the standard of living is above a certain level, it will take a lot more $$$ just to improve it slightly.
What's all the high-brow talk? We HDB Heart-Landers know we have to pay the minimum of $3 for a bowl of "Wan Tan Mee", etc.... in our Heart Land hawker centres, that's all. Which use to be the minimum $3 charged in private "Food Courts" in shopping malls. Now how to eat in food court?
Ya of course it's due to inflation ma. No inflation means no progress, right?
Now cleaners and other equivalent jobs are to be paid a minimum of $1000 from $800, by legislations, right? Why? Deflation or Inflation or things are getting to costly for the lower to lowest working classes to survive? Some people here may of course shrug it off their shoulders. You ask, "What can you do about it"? Hmmmm..... "What can we do about it"?
(05-03-2014, 08:49 AM)cif5000 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2014, 06:43 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:the cost of living has absolutely nothing to do with the standard of living
Eh... then how do you explain the following...
World's 10 most expensive cities to live in 2014
1. Singapore
2. Paris
3. Oslo, Norway
4. Zurich, Switzerland
5. Sydney
6. Caracas, Venezuela
6. Geneva, Switzerland
6. Melbourne
6. Tokyo
7. Copenhagen, Denmark
and the following list:
World's 10 least expensive cities to live in 2014
122. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
123. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
124. Panama City, Panama
124. Bucharest, Romania
126. Algiers, Algeria
127. Damascus, Syria
127. Kathmandu, Nepal
129. New Delhi
130. Karachi, Pakistan
131. Mumbai, India
In mathematical term, the correlation between cost of living and standard of living is very very positive.
They are all cities. The correlation may not be positive for smaller settlements.
Even when correlation is clearly positive, it may not be linear. i.e. once the standard of living is above a certain level, it will take a lot more $$$ just to improve it slightly.
What stands out is ...
World's 10 least expensive cities to live in 2014
122. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
123. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Top Oil producing Nation and RICH is last 10 in cost of living. Interesting indeed. Maybe we should benchmark against them in performance
One reminder. We handle all statement on religious seriously. Let's be extra caution in your reference on religious. You might not mean it, but reader might read it differently.
Regards
Moderator
(05-03-2014, 09:16 AM)corydorus Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2014, 08:49 AM)cif5000 Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2014, 06:43 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:the cost of living has absolutely nothing to do with the standard of living
Eh... then how do you explain the following...
World's 10 most expensive cities to live in 2014
1. Singapore
2. Paris
3. Oslo, Norway
4. Zurich, Switzerland
5. Sydney
6. Caracas, Venezuela
6. Geneva, Switzerland
6. Melbourne
6. Tokyo
7. Copenhagen, Denmark
and the following list:
World's 10 least expensive cities to live in 2014
122. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
123. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
124. Panama City, Panama
124. Bucharest, Romania
126. Algiers, Algeria
127. Damascus, Syria
127. Kathmandu, Nepal
129. New Delhi
130. Karachi, Pakistan
131. Mumbai, India
In mathematical term, the correlation between cost of living and standard of living is very very positive.
They are all cities. The correlation may not be positive for smaller settlements.
Even when correlation is clearly positive, it may not be linear. i.e. once the standard of living is above a certain level, it will take a lot more $$$ just to improve it slightly.
What stands out is ...
World's 10 least expensive cities to live in 2014
122. Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
123. Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Top Oil producing Nation and RICH is last 10 in cost of living. Interesting indeed. Maybe we should benchmark against them in performance
Thank you for bringing this cities in Saudi up for discussion. In my past interaction with the people from Saudi, they are very happy with their gov. It seems the gov has poured much of their earnings from their cartel back to benefit the communities. Alas, us being the most expensive city is very much an In-corporated company. Rules are set in this dynasty and any body who didn't measure up would be required to ship out.
Let's see what sort of overall goodness idea (e.g. the PE policy) can we get now without coming back to milk us (i.e. increase of conv fees.) Looks like everyone is looking forward to more pay increment and also big bonuses, such like a big Inc. We are open to new ideas that would truly benefit us.
Stay healthy and prosper,
Belg.
(05-03-2014, 08:49 AM)cif5000 Wrote: [ -> ]They are all cities. The correlation may not be positive for smaller settlements.
Even when correlation is clearly positive, it may not be linear. i.e. once the standard of living is above a certain level, it will take a lot more $$$ just to improve it slightly.
Certainly. But "absolutely" is mathematically not acceptable. haha.
And, there is really no clear standard on "Standard of living". I am ok with HDB but others may want a condo.
Even a 3-room HDB is fine too since I had lived in one for more than 20 years.
But, my standard is not everyone's standard
It is clear that Spore has become very uncompetitive. And the root of it is not wages of workers like how the govt likes to assert, but rather soaring rents and utility costs that directly impact businesses and hamper entrepreneurship.
(05-03-2014, 08:02 AM)HitandRun Wrote: [ -> ]I find it interesting that folks need EIU to tell them what the cost of living is. Surely, you have better data points / first hand information than them?
As a comparison, what are the monthly pay for fresh graduates in the following countries?
Singapore ~ SGD3,000
Hong Kong ~ HKD12,778 (SGD2,100)
Malaysia ~ MYR2,800 (SGD1,100)
Taiwan ~ TWD28,000 (SGD1,200)
As well traveled Singaporeans, most folks would have been to the above countries. I will leave forumners to draw their own conclusions.
Similarly u are using other statistics to guesstimate your own conclusion, just that EIU is more elaborate
I am inherently skeptical about statistics but my own feel is HK and London and Dubai is more expensive than Singapore... but Singapore likely to be top10. Not sure if that's a comfort...
(05-03-2014, 09:51 AM)yeokiwi Wrote: [ -> ] (05-03-2014, 08:49 AM)cif5000 Wrote: [ -> ]They are all cities. The correlation may not be positive for smaller settlements.
Even when correlation is clearly positive, it may not be linear. i.e. once the standard of living is above a certain level, it will take a lot more $$$ just to improve it slightly.
Certainly. But "absolutely" is mathematically not acceptable. haha.
And, there is really no clear standard on "Standard of living". I am ok with HDB but others may want a condo.
Even a 3-room HDB is fine too since I had lived in one for more than 20 years.
But, my standard is not everyone's standard
Cost of living is almost certain to go up when standard of living goes up; just as inflation goes up with growth. What is not fine is when cost of living/ inflation goes up without the latter. And many oil producing countries subsidise the cost of living.
PS Thanks to flinger for the EIU report