Jardine Matheson Holdings Limited

[donmihaihai]

Rather than read what they say, I would rather see what they do. While the 1st layer JSH, right below JMH is removed, the group is getting more complex right below the current 1st layer, which is HKL, JCC, MOIL and DFI.

And you are right, how much capital invested in actually more important than interest % unless one is hunger for control. And those substantial associates and investments, getting larger and some are looking large enough and about equal or getting more capital invested over the years that they start to weight like the 1st layer HKL, JCC, MOIL and DFI or even Jardine Pacific.

I am very certain JMH investment in JCC isn't the 2nd lowest among these 4 listed subsidiaries unless you separate Astra from JCC. Btw, any investment in Astra need to pass through JCC.

Anyway comparing JSH 2014 interest in these 4 subsi against 2024 interest is not apple to apple. JMH only control 80 to 85% of what JSH control in 2014. Look out for effective interest in the note, which should be only 80 to 85% of your figure. Go back even earlier, in 2005, that effective interest was even lower. Look at the history at JMH website, the initial interest in Cycle and Carriage was purchased in 1992 @ 16% which likely through JSH. 32 years later, JMH interest @ about 81%. In my opinion, the current JCC is a totally different animal as compared to 1992, there is no value of it being listed.

If you really look, there are many "JCC" because JMH doesn't really build new businesses.

Recent years have been very good to JMH because it has been eating up across its group cheaply.

[weijian]

Hi ghchua,

I am definitely not under an illusion that a comparison taking 5mins to make up, will tell a full story on allocation for tens of billions of market cap.

Since the Taipans already control all 4 of them and none of them are in need of capital thus far (ie. equity fund raising), we can reasonably assume that the singular goal of any particular capital allocation is to maximize the returns. So, it is less probable that they increase into MOI just because lesser capital was invested.

I am not ambitious enough to try to understand nor 2nd guess their capital allocation strategies. I think the Taipans have some good businesses but unfortunately, I prefer to be slightly selective. As such, I have to go into some details especially comparisons about how much more they put in between each other, so as to improve my battling odds.

For example, if they have been increasing their stakes directly, would that suggest lower odds of an equity fund raising?

[ghchua]

I am very certain JMH investment in JCC isn't the 2nd lowest among these 4 listed subsidiaries unless you separate Astra from JCC. Btw, any investment in Astra need to pass through JCC.

Hi donmihaihai,

Yes, they are separated. Not that I wanted to separate them, but it was as disclosed in their latest annual report. I just refer to their numbers there in Page 19 on the pie chart.

[donmihaihai]

I am very certain JMH investment in JCC isn't the 2nd lowest among these 4 listed subsidiaries unless you separate Astra from JCC. Btw, any investment in Astra need to pass through JCC.

Hi donmihaihai,

Yes, they are separated. Not that I wanted to separate them, but it was as disclosed in their latest annual report. I just refer to their numbers there in Page 19 on the pie chart.

I was thinking about the segmental number in the notes. 

I happen to see the number in the pie chart telling the story of how much capital the companies within JHM invested in FY2023. JCC USD1B figure reflected additional USD350M convertible bond of Thaco plus additional interests in associates, plus capex of JCC Singapore & Malaysia plus figures from associates. Check through the cashflow statement, there is no way JMH would invest USD10B ++ (CAPEX plus investment) in 2023. 

The capital investment by JMH in JCC in my mind is how much JMH spent to purchase the 81% stake in JCC.