i think that challenger is a very well run company, with good financials..........but, its lacking a spark/talent to bring the business overseas
i am not saying that it is easy but its something it has to overcome.......
(01-06-2014, 02:45 PM)newborn1000 Wrote: [ -> ]i think that challenger is a very well run company, with good financials..........but, its lacking a spark/talent to bring the business overseas
i am not saying that it is easy but its something it has to overcome.......
Challenger has failed too many times overseas, before their IPO they closed stores in 3 other countries.
Think investors should settle for it as a pure SG play.
However not to be too disappointed, starhub and M1 are pure SG plays too but look how big their market cap has become.
(01-06-2014, 12:48 PM)Kelvin Wrote: [ -> ]4 years worth of discussion on challenger in valuebuddies and we still see the similar negative outlook of challenger by some members.
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sure, we value diversity!
Somehow, the short term happenings does NOT look positive lah...
and maybe even against value principles...
Let's see how it works out in the longer term,
Challenger this kind of company got no value add at all one. Over price compare to SLS, rent kana bully by landlord, selling lousy china oem low end electronics and underpay all those poorly train desperate cannot find job new grads as "product consultants" etc
(01-06-2014, 02:58 PM)ValueMaster Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2014, 02:45 PM)newborn1000 Wrote: [ -> ]i think that challenger is a very well run company, with good financials..........but, its lacking a spark/talent to bring the business overseas
i am not saying that it is easy but its something it has to overcome.......
Challenger has failed too many times overseas, before their IPO they closed stores in 3 other countries.
Think investors should settle for it as a pure SG play.
However not to be too disappointed, starhub and M1 are pure SG plays too but look how big their market cap has become.
Yes, the oversea ventures of the company were failed all the time. The brand "Challenger" works only in Singapore, not elsewhere.
The company seems planning for another oversea venture to China, with a subsidiary in Shanghai. This time the model changed from retailer to distributor. Let's see the outcome...
(vested)
Hi all
This is my first post. Coming from the consumer products and retail industry myself, I think the extension into Valore is a strategic move to go up the value chain. However, the role of their house brand leaves much to be debated. My personal opinion is that the growth of Challenger is also attributed to the growth in IT products (esp tablets) over the past few years. In industry speak, tablets is like a "destination category" where shoppers will go to Challenger because of that. Apple as a brand is destination brand, where the pull of shoppers is on the basis on brands, this explains why all the electronics store wants Apple products.
IT accessories such as logitech and Valore are more of destination categories and non destination brands (ie the price is the determinant). Going into a segment which is destination category but non destination brand is actually a very difficult and dangerous move. Reason being the investment and the inventory management will be very tough, esp if the incumbents in that segment is very strong. The analogy will be NTUC Fairprice having their own chocolate brands and going against Nestle. On a brighter note, it could be the tissue paper industry, where NTUC Fairprice apparently has technically won the war against Kimberly Clark.
Just my 2 cents worth of sharing. Apologies if it doesn't make any sense.
(01-06-2014, 05:30 PM)franko.yank Wrote: [ -> ]Challenger this kind of company got no value add at all one. Over price compare to SLS, rent kana bully by landlord, selling lousy china oem low end electronics and underpay all those poorly train desperate cannot find job new grads as "product consultants" etc
please do your home work before u say rent kanna bully by landlord
rents are only 4% of their revenues
you will be surprise with the bargaining power they have
(01-06-2014, 06:07 PM)smalkmus Wrote: [ -> ]Hi all
This is my first post. Coming from the consumer products and retail industry myself, I think the extension into Valore is a strategic move to go up the value chain. However, the role of their house brand leaves much to be debated. My personal opinion is that the growth of Challenger is also attributed to the growth in IT products (esp tablets) over the past few years. In industry speak, tablets is like a "destination category" where shoppers will go to Challenger because of that. Apple as a brand is destination brand, where the pull of shoppers is on the basis on brands, this explains why all the electronics store wants Apple products.
IT accessories such as logitech and Valore are more of destination categories and non destination brands (ie the price is the determinant). Going into a segment which is destination category but non destination brand is actually a very difficult and dangerous move. Reason being the investment and the inventory management will be very tough, esp if the incumbents in that segment is very strong. The analogy will be NTUC Fairprice having their own chocolate brands and going against Nestle. On a brighter note, it could be the tissue paper industry, where NTUC Fairprice apparently has technically won the war against Kimberly Clark.
Just my 2 cents worth of sharing. Apologies if it doesn't make any sense.
You are right, but partly, base on my understanding of the company as a long-term shareholder.
The company succeeded in Singapore, not due to products sold are "destination brand", but Challenger brand is a "destination brand". Accessories are high margin, and have been always the focus of the company, for years.
One of the reasons for failed oversea venture, is the Challenger brand is no longer a "destination brand" oversea. Challenger is the top IT retailer here, but may not even top 5 or top 10 oversea.
So in short, Challenger store concept still work in Singapore, but oversea venture should has different strategy
Sharing my view on the topic
(vested)
(01-06-2014, 06:48 PM)ValueMaster Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2014, 05:30 PM)franko.yank Wrote: [ -> ]Challenger this kind of company got no value add at all one. Over price compare to SLS, rent kana bully by landlord, selling lousy china oem low end electronics and underpay all those poorly train desperate cannot find job new grads as "product consultants" etc
please do your home work before u say rent kanna bully by landlord
rents are only 4% of their revenues
you will be surprise with the bargaining power they have
Challenger this kind of biz got super low GP margin, any cost if measure as % of revenue will be some small % number. The rent as % of GP is much higher and any rent increase will hit profit big time as seen in latest Q1.
You better do your homework first before act big and talking down to others.
(01-06-2014, 09:33 PM)franko.yank Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2014, 06:48 PM)ValueMaster Wrote: [ -> ] (01-06-2014, 05:30 PM)franko.yank Wrote: [ -> ]Challenger this kind of company got no value add at all one. Over price compare to SLS, rent kana bully by landlord, selling lousy china oem low end electronics and underpay all those poorly train desperate cannot find job new grads as "product consultants" etc
please do your home work before u say rent kanna bully by landlord
rents are only 4% of their revenues
you will be surprise with the bargaining power they have
Challenger this kind of biz got super low GP margin, any cost if measure as % of revenue will be some small % number. The rent as % of GP is much higher and any rent increase will hit profit big time as seen in latest Q1.
You better do your homework first before act big and talking down to others.
Challenger's rent are tied to how much revenues they make.
Retail business are generally low margin, look at big names like Best Buy and Walmart they only have 2.5% and 3% net margins only, yet they have done so well!
Local retailers like sheng shiong also have very low net margins yet the market values it at 20 times earnings
If challenger is such a lousy counter, why has revenues and net profits been going up consecutively for 10 years?
If you are so bearish on it, I will encourage you to short the stock
I'll buy everything you sell at 50 cents per share ^^