(01-04-2018, 02:25 AM)specuvestor Wrote: [ -> ]^^ nothing happens I am smart and capitalism works; something happens government should warn / help socialise the cost
That’s the biggest conundrum of a capitalist republic
Not really the mind set of the ordinary folks. The ordinary folks, who invested in retail bond, who do not have savvy knowledge of investment, who don’t have time on the research, buy retail bond for dividend only, not thinking of capital gain on the share price, the investment is for Low return, lower risk . They don’t really feel smart compared to those who can get multiple bags of return from the stocks which were gem and bought at cheap price. Unfortunately I was one of those . But I don’t feel smart. I regret that I chose Hyflux, not the DBS preferential share , I regret I didn’t sell it at $93 after my broker advised me to hold it. But for one thing, I don’t buy too much into one stock, same to Hyflux retail bond. Diversifying is important for ordinary guys to lower the risk.
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(01-04-2018, 12:12 PM)SpaceX Wrote: [ -> ].. buy retail bond for dividend only, not thinking of capital gain on the share price, the investment is for Low return, lower risk . ..
6% yield is not really low return, nor low risk. The market gives 6%-8% annualized. 6% guaranteed yield is pretty high returns relatively.
It is also known for many years that Hyflux core business is struggling. Hence, high yield + struggling business, the risk involved (worst case scenario) should have been carefully considered initially when the investment was made, and accepted if it really comes down to it.
2c.
Yes, I agree partially. Although Hyflux was struggling with their business, the risk of their bond was not that high until the default happened in O&G industry.This deprived it’s capability of issuing new bonds . Otherwise, this cps was already redeemed and a bond was issued instead.
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In life, acceptance is key to inner peace.
Forgive my poor English. Does “acceptance” means “accepting the failure”? If time can go back, I may sell it after the first default in O&G, f time can goes back , I may not invest in the cps at all . But time cannot go back, so I try to memorise all the mistakes I made, so it won’t happen again in future.
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(01-04-2018, 10:21 AM)Behappyalways Wrote: [ -> ]I have a relative who has vested more than a million dollars in the bond. My advice to him was to take a good look again and maybe cut loss. But he is not willing to cut loss. He 'consoles' himself that the govt will not let the company to collapse. This kind of thing will not happen to a govt 'related' company. Sigh....what to do .....hope he is right.....although I seriously doubt so
(31-03-2018, 10:56 AM)mobo Wrote: [ -> ]At a time when fixed deposits were at record low, they bought a couple of of financial instruments which were yielding 5% - 6%, i.e. many times return of what a risk free proposition would bring. This simple fact alone would imply that the risk of said instruments are going to be significant and they have willingly accepted this risk in return for a higher interest.
I am now hearing a lot of chatter online and offline bordering self-victimization by implying government negligence or misbehavior by Hyflux. The troubles going through Hyflux now is part of the product specs, it is not an aberration due to some conspiracy. Nobody invests with the intention of losing money, but one must recognize that taking on additional risk in pursuit of greater returns is the basic tenet of any functioning market economy. Occasional loses are part and parcel of the cost of any investments.
He is suffering from loss aversion, a human bias condition. Tell him to read up on it, it might inspire him to jump out of the boiling pot....
I wouldn’t advise anyone anything if they are already vested. Unlike with the main share, this turns into a capital loss only if Hyflux goes bankrupt. That is by no means proven yet. You don’t want to be “responsible” for giving advice if this wasn’t a permanent capital loss then.
If Hyflux manages to sell Tuaspring, even at a discount, the perpetuals will spring right up.
(02-04-2018, 07:11 AM)tanjm Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t advise anyone anything if they are already vested. Unlike with the main share, this turns into a capital loss only if Hyflux goes bankrupt. That is by no means proven yet. You don’t want to be “responsible” for giving advice if this wasn’t a permanent capital loss then.
If Hyflux manages to sell Tuaspring, even at a discount, the perpetuals will spring right up.
Agreed. Being responsible for someone loss is no fun. I will not give advise at this stage of game.
(02-04-2018, 07:11 AM)tanjm Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t advise anyone anything if they are already vested. Unlike with the main share, this turns into a capital loss only if Hyflux goes bankrupt. That is by no means proven yet. You don’t want to be “responsible” for giving advice if this wasn’t a permanent capital loss then.
If Hyflux manages to sell Tuaspring, even at a discount, the perpetuals will spring right up.
(02-04-2018, 07:29 AM)corydorus Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2018, 07:11 AM)tanjm Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn’t advise anyone anything if they are already vested. Unlike with the main share, this turns into a capital loss only if Hyflux goes bankrupt. That is by no means proven yet. You don’t want to be “responsible” for giving advice if this wasn’t a permanent capital loss then.
If Hyflux manages to sell Tuaspring, even at a discount, the perpetuals will spring right up.
Agreed. Being responsible for someone loss is no fun. I will not give advise at this stage of game.
Whether there will be an eventual loss a not, it has to be properly evaluated by the bond holder.
At least till date, no shortie researcher, iceberg equivalent, has produced a report on hyflux trying to hide the losses with unrealistic valuation.
Due to Noble Group effect, the investors are probably equating hyflux with it. However, hyflux assets can be seen and touched, unlike Noble's assets.
(01-04-2018, 12:12 PM)SpaceX Wrote: [ -> ]Not really the mind set of the ordinary folks. The ordinary folks, who invested in retail bond, who do not have savvy knowledge of investment, who don’t have time on the research, buy retail bond for dividend only, not thinking of capital gain on the share price, the investment is for Low return, lower risk.
Low return for lower risk is just the flips side of for higher return for high risk, both concepts are commonly known as Alpha in financial circles. Nothing wrong with that, but I always advise anyone thinking of that to take a realistic assessment of yourself.
If someone were to ask you what qualities you posses to generate something elusive like Alpha which majority of full time professionals are unable to, are you able to spell it out succinctly? If not, then it's time to eat humble pie.
I was talking to a guy in his late 40s who invested a lot in retail bonds and stocks and the poor sap doesn't even know how to calculate a bond's current yield to maturity.The guy is literally taking the interest % divided by current bond price as the yield to maturity and making decisions on that basis.
And yes the same guy who is lacking basic 101 foundation was also expressing similar sentiments of how he is going to generate superior risk adjusted returns.
