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Singapore has a third world wage structure and the govt intends to keep it that way. Themselves excluded of course.

That's why, i always tell my son if you can not be a professional, active business man than be an ordinary wage earner. It's alright. You still can be a passive business man(Investor of the stock markets). Put as much energy and time into it and with HIS BLESSINGS(some people call "LUCK"), you will be O. K.
And he looks at me for a long time, then he finally comes to understand i am a good example. He agrees. And he has most of my DNA rather then my wife's. My wife not interested at all in money(Err..., i mean investment). There is a bright tomorrow for him. Amen.
Shalom.

Hi hyom,

It must be tough for both you and your family. But as others here have said, you can't fight the tide (in this case, the sunset of electronic engineering on our shores) so the best thing you can do is ride it. Maybe you could see it as a sign that it's time to do something else that would either a) make you happier or b) pay better, of course hopefully both.

It will be tough but hang in there!

(27-11-2011, 11:30 PM)piggo Wrote: [ -> ]That's probably because engineers in SG are so disgustingly underpaid. They have no power over their salary because every other major economy out there has millions of engineers willing and able to work for a lower wage here. So to make up for the gap, we work at nights, into the wee hours... do all sorts of unrelated work, clock additional hours for additional income.

If EDB or rather the gov did the same with medicine, law or accounting, the same situation will happen to these fields.
Not enough engineers?? Import
Not enough engineering students?? scholarships, course subsidies..
Productivity?? who cares...

The policies are such that it is a waste of time for the engineering/manufacturing/IT industries to look into productivity. Hey, if I can employ three foreign software developers for $3000 each, why should I be bother to improve the productivity so that I can use one developer at $6000?
Even though, 3 lousy software developers may not even be able to match the output of an experienced software developer.

The gov is dying to have more local engineering graduates but if there is no limit to using cheaper workforce in industries, who would want to join engineering/IT?

(27-11-2011, 07:01 PM)memphisb Wrote: [ -> ]MOMO:

Actually the most likely investor/traders are engineers as noted by Doc Elder if i recalled correctly.

Quite a few people i knew were from engineers and were traders at night :X

Perhaps most of Dr Elder's students are engineers, because many engineers have very little clues about such stuff upon graduation!

*Me included*

Losing your job, especially in times of economic uncertainty, may seem like the end of the world. Especially more so if you have dependents. This drives home the importance of saving for a rainy day and investing towards financial independence.

When I lost my job during AFC, I was fortunate to be married (a good reason for you single folks out there to get married!) as we could still scrap by with 1 single income. Coupled with our savings and investments, I wasn't too pressurised to quickly find another job.

In fact, now thinking back and being able to join the dots (copy fm Steve Jobs' speech), losing my job was the best thing that could have happened to me!

For most of us, having a job means taking home a salary. Many hate working for someone else or hate the job they are doing, but the so-called meagre pay will still hold back many of us from trying to do something else on our own (without any certainty of a regular income stream) as we are slaves to the many bills we have to pay.

In my case, although I'd loved what I was doing, I'd gotten bored (perhaps mid-life crisis). I'd in fact left a more "iron rice bowl" job to try something else more interesting. Unfortunately (or fortunately), the company couldn't outlast the AFC and there I was, with a less than 1 year old kid, trying to survive on one income and the little investing skills I had (need to make up the shortfall from our single income to pay all the recurring expenses).

First, I decided to make use of this "opportunity" to try something different. Talked to a few friends and family members, and it's times like these that you realised who are the better friends or family members! One of the thing we decided to try was to start up a small food kiosk, having done a 1mth trial in an expo. We checked the rental rates from Shopping Malls to HDB shops to Coffee Shops. IMO, the rental is probably the 'killer' of many entreprenaurial dreams. The only good that came out of this exercise was I was able to confidently subscribe to CMT REIT IPO and accumulate more subsequently.

After another couple of years, I was back to square one. No job and poorer than before but a lot wiser. I decided to try something else on my own (partnering friends / family members was a great learning experience on human characters/traits). Coupled with a small kid to look after, I decided to focus on Stocks Investing. Prior to that, although I'd been investing in stocks for more than 10 years, I'm ashamed to say I wasn't doing any real analysis. To be conservative, I'd stuck to mostly "S"-Chips (my "S" refers to "Singapore" ie. SPH, SingPost, SBS, STEng,...) and I usually buy when I see it close to it's year lows. I wasn't losing $$ but I wasn't making a lot either as I'd never been confident enough to buy any single stock in substantial quantity.

To make a long story short, I subsequently stumbled on this community, realised from the many selfless gurus that it's possible to make a living from Stocks Investing (I have not heard of Warren Buffett / Benjamin Graham or any other great investors before that). The learning journey was fun, although I was still filled with uncertainty and disbelief that it can be possible.

Like some had commented here, perhaps I was lucky as that period was marked by a strong super bull run from '03-'07. The sharp correction in '08 was short but the subsequent rebound was even stronger. It'd ended recently and we're now on the downward ride of the roller-coaster. I don't know whar'll happen next and only time will tell if I'd indeed been just lucky or I'd acquire some minimal investing skillset to tide me through the rest of my life being what many termed as "society's parasite" ie no real contribution to society.

Still, no regrets (the "unlimited" free time spent bonding with our young kids, watching them grow and teaching them the right values, is priceless although I feel like vomitting blood most times) and I wouldn't do it any differently if I'd to start all over. We'd also recently removed the last safety net (no more single source of working income) plus a lot more kids now (we're doing our part to make sure our population don't get overwhelmed by new immigrants). We'll try to enjoy this new exciting ride and I'll try not to stay awake at night thinking about how to survive, relying on my limited investing skillset.

Thank you all of you for your kind replies, particularly those who took time to make a long post to someone whom they have never met. I should start a new thread to reply to all your kind words as I do not want to hijack a "money" thread and turn it into a "retrenchment" thread. Sorry my replies will not come so soon as I have to finish some urgent matters in the office for the next few days.

hi hyom,
As a fellow engineer in the electronics industry, i share your pain. I would just like to briefly share my own experience with you, hopefully it gives you a source of strength.

I was laid off in late 2008. Although it was the worst of times to be laid off, i was given a sum of money as my retrenchment benefit. I managed to use this pile of $ and invested correctly in the bottom from Jan-March2009 (on hindsight). During my free time, i also used it to read up and learn many new things (about finance - behaviorial/accounting) that an engineer would nv dream if he/she had stick to the usual routine. That period (of 6 months of joblessness) had to be 1 of the most rewarding period of my life to date. Of course, looking back, it helped as the pullback was very sharp.

An crisis may eventually turn out to be a opportunity - if one can learn to always somehow see the glass half full, instead of half empty. All the best.

(28-11-2011, 09:09 PM)weijian Wrote: [ -> ]hi hyom,
As a fellow engineer in the electronics industry, i share your pain. I would just like to briefly share my own experience with you, hopefully it gives you a source of strength.

I was laid off in late 2008. Although it was the worst of times to be laid off, i was given a sum of money as my retrenchment benefit. I managed to use this pile of $ and invested correctly in the bottom from Jan-March2009 (on hindsight). During my free time, i also used it to read up and learn many new things (about finance - behaviorial/accounting) that an engineer would nv dream if he/she had stick to the usual routine. That period (of 6 months of joblessness) had to be 1 of the most rewarding period of my life to date. Of course, looking back, it helped as the pullback was very sharp.

An crisis may eventually turn out to be a opportunity - if one can learn to always somehow see the glass half full, instead of half empty. All the best.

QUOTE:
A crisis may eventually turn out to be a opportunity
Every Chinese should understand the above very well.
危 机 -有 危，就 有机.
So in any crisis, if we can overcome it we will be a better person.
Shalom.

Hello Kopitkat and weijian,

It's nice to hear inspirational personal stories of getting up where we fall!

We just have to make the best of the cards we are dealt.

Each generation have their own stories to tell.

Those working adults in the 60s have to live with the "shock" of being kicked out and all alone to fend for ourselves...

70s have to brave through 2 oil shocks....

80s we have high inflation and we priced ourselves into recession by raising wages to encourage "automation" (those were good old days when emploer CPF was 25%)... Remember Pan-Elec collapse? Talk about counter-party risks! Many brokers almost...

90s we have clob saga and 97 Asian Financial Crisis...

00s we have SARs, Dot-com crash, Iraq war...

What Temperament says is so true: 危 机 -有 危，就 有机.

What will 2012 bring? I've no clue! But I am optimistic - thanks to all the positive sharing! (Much better than moaning and complaining)