Hi UD,
Thanks for the hardwork in uncovering the statistics. AMVIG is worth a research. Thanks for the lead.
GG
(12-04-2012, 11:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: [ -> ]Tobacco Packaging contribution to Amcor's Revenue has increased from 6.6% (2009) to 9.8% in 2011.
Proportion of Tobacco Packaging
2011 - 9.8% (out of revenue base of $12billion Aussie Dollars)
2010 - 8.6%
2009 - 6.6%
Amcor has stated in its AR that it sees Tobacco Packaging in Emerging Markets as Growth Markets.
It started to invest in this segment back in 2008 when it pumped $281mil SG to acquire shares in HK publicly-listed company AMVIG, which has 20% of tobacco carton market in China.
Since then contribution of this segment to overall revenue has increased.
The key is to remain "detached" from one's investment and view it objectively, weighing all the different possibilities and uncertainties.
No one can be 100% certain of all factors and no one has the monopoly of knowledege. For all you know, the company which you have trusted for more than 20 years could just pull a fast one on you and you could lose everything overnight...
Always have patience and diversify...
No single person has the power to talk up or talk down the share.
The use of "subtle" "suggestive" "implied" information/remarks do not work in this age and time, becos anyone can just go and verifiy the authenticity of any info
God Bless all
(13-04-2012, 03:38 PM)Underdogger Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, things are always very fluid and all the M&A deals are always fraught with GREAT uncertainties and surprises..
No one should be naive enough to take every single posting at this forum at its ace value without doing his/her own objective evaluation..
(13-04-2012, 03:02 PM)Curiousparty Wrote: [ -> ]Actually there are many tabacco packaging companies around the world.
There is no definite certainty that Amcor would be interested in New Toyo. Amcor would have to assess the merits of any acquisition deals and get approval from ACCC.
Would ACCC get apprehensive if Amcor gets too big ? i.e. Amcor controls too much market share and monopolize the industry..
(12-04-2012, 11:37 PM)Underdogger Wrote: [ -> ]Tobacco Packaging contribution to Amcor's Revenue has increased from 6.6% (2009) to 9.8% in 2011.
Proportion of Tobacco Packaging
2011 - 9.8% (out of revenue base of $12billion Aussie Dollars)
2010 - 8.6%
2009 - 6.6%
Amcor has stated in its AR that it sees Tobacco Packaging in Emerging Markets as Growth Markets.
It started to invest in this segment back in 2008 when it pumped $281mil SG to acquire shares in HK publicly-listed company AMVIG, which has 20% of tobacco carton market in China.
Since then contribution of this segment to overall revenue has increased.
Based on the AR which I just received, MV = $25.64mil vs BV = $12.347mil or 2.07 times BV or 5.8 cents per share
MV of properties have been on very good uptrend over the years
(13-04-2012, 02:34 PM)Underdogger Wrote: [ -> ]Tks for pointing it out.
Based on historical ratio of 1.8 times BV, the MV as of end 2011 should be around $22mil (BV = $12.3mil) or 5 cents per share.
[quote='portuser' pid='22567' dateline='1334280614']
Underdogger
Your have written that New Toyo's "investment properties are valued at $28.4mil (as of Dec 2010). The corresponding BV was only $15.6 mil.
(As of Dec 2009 - MV = $26.4mil; BV = $16.1mil). So probably, as of end 2011, we have crossed the $30mil mark for MV."
Your inference that market value of investment properties is rising may be valid. But your forecast about the market value crossing the $30m mark by the end of 2011 seems unrealistic.
During the year, properties costing $3.04 m were sold for a gain of $ 0.86m, leaving a residual book value of $12.3m as at 31 Dec 2011. It is highly unlikely for these properties to have a market value of 2.5 times book value.
is it so hard to ask a reasonable question. SAH is money that was invested by NT. Funds return to NT and chairman decides to pay himself a ex-gratia payment? Shouldnt shldrs be entitled to a share of the proceeds if Mr. Yen is getting 2mil plus?
He is taking the opportunity to milk for himself while shldrs have to wait until when? He should have seen in the market nowadays, you cannot increase shldrs value unless you also raise the dividend and share price follow in tendum. We should also remind directors that having the same higher dividend yield is the direct result of depressed share price. We need to raise the bar now that he has asked for 2mil to be paid - pls justify?
How long more do we have to wait if NT is worth a lot more!! How do they intent to raise shldrs value if not dividend - no point talking - must put into practice! The business is afterall link to client that sell an addictive product and most of these client has never been affected by recession - so why cant they pay out special dividend!!
It would be a BIG Disappointment if ID and SIAS cannot argue this with the Yen!!
It is clear to me the Yen are taking advantage of minority by paying themselves 1st on the 2mil and we need to press on
Extract from AR 2011 -
"Depending on the final cash proceeds available to the company from the sales of its business from our associated company, SAH, we will also review our strategic position"
Does the most current statement represent a change in stance from its earlier position?
What NEW Strategic Position is New Toyo trying to take? E.g. Acquire more of Tien Wah? Acquire other companies like Amvig?
(03-03-2012, 11:31 AM)portuser Wrote: [ -> ]Valuebeliever
You have stated that the following:
"I noted in 2010 report they have indicated that SAH deal if it goes thru will result in a BIG payout to shldrs? If they are man of their words, it should be happening...."
I suppose "they" refers to New Toyo.
The text on asset sales by Shanghai Asia in page 6 of New Toyo's 2010 annual report reads:
"If the transaction announced by our associated company, Shanghai Asia Holdings Limited, on 25 th October 2010 regarding the sale of its entire business andassets does proceed, this would result in a significant cash payout to the Company."
There is no indication that the significant cash payout that New Toyo will receive from Shanghai Asia will in turn be paid out to shareholders of New Toyo.
But I think the likelihood of a reasonable payout is high as New Toyo's bank borrowings are modest.
Family politics are something that we do not want to speculate about
If it comes, it comes. If it doesn't, just too bad. Life continues...
(14-04-2012, 12:12 AM)ValueBeliever Wrote: [ -> ]is it so hard to ask a reasonable question. SAH is money that was invested by NT. Funds return to NT and chairman decides to pay himself a ex-gratia payment? Shouldnt shldrs be entitled to a share of the proceeds if Mr. Yen is getting 2mil plus?
He is taking the opportunity to milk for himself while shldrs have to wait until when? He should have seen in the market nowadays, you cannot increase shldrs value unless you also raise the dividend and share price follow in tendum. We should also remind directors that having the same higher dividend yield is the direct result of depressed share price. We need to raise the bar now that he has asked for 2mil to be paid - pls justify?
How long more do we have to wait if NT is worth a lot more!! How do they intent to raise shldrs value if not dividend - no point talking - must put into practice! The business is afterall link to client that sell an addictive product and most of these client has never been affected by recession - so why cant they pay out special dividend!!
It would be a BIG Disappointment if ID and SIAS cannot argue this with the Yen!!
It is clear to me the Yen are taking advantage of minority by paying themselves 1st on the 2mil and we need to press on
If the statement "He is taking the opportunity to milk for himself while shldrs have to wait until when ?" is true, why do we still want to invest in the company ? Better walk away. We cannot get good deal from bad people.
The circular on the proposed ex-gratia payment indicates that Mr Yen had foregone $6.12m in remuneration during his 11-year term as Executive Chairman and Managing Director of New Toyo:
"A factor in its decision to award the Proposed Ex Gratia Payment of S$2.25 mthe proposed illion to Mr Yen, the Board wishes to highlight to the Shareholders that Mr Yen had during his 11 years as an executive of the Company, waived most of his contractual salary of S$35,000 per month payable to him and most of his contractual bonus as the Executive Chairman and Managing Director amounting to S$6.12 million under his service agreement with the Company.
During the period when Mr Yen was the Executive Chairman and Managing Director of the Group from April 1997 to March 2008, he had received in aggregate S$2.23 million in salary and S$0.67 million in bonus which amounted to S$2.90 million. Had Mr Yen been paid his contractual salary and bonus under his service agreement with the Company, he would have been entitled to receive S$9.02 million in salary and bonus."
As stated by SAH in its most recent announcement, it will pay out a max of ONLY 50% from the sales proceeds.
So, there is a strong likelihood that the payout could be much less than 50%...
This might disappoint a lot of shareholders...Even then, it does not imply that New Toyo will automatically pay out to its own shareholders...
(14-04-2012, 12:12 AM)ValueBeliever Wrote: [ -> ]is it so hard to ask a reasonable question. SAH is money that was invested by NT. Funds return to NT and chairman decides to pay himself a ex-gratia payment? Shouldnt shldrs be entitled to a share of the proceeds if Mr. Yen is getting 2mil plus?
He is taking the opportunity to milk for himself while shldrs have to wait until when? He should have seen in the market nowadays, you cannot increase shldrs value unless you also raise the dividend and share price follow in tendum. We should also remind directors that having the same higher dividend yield is the direct result of depressed share price. We need to raise the bar now that he has asked for 2mil to be paid - pls justify?
How long more do we have to wait if NT is worth a lot more!! How do they intent to raise shldrs value if not dividend - no point talking - must put into practice! The business is afterall link to client that sell an addictive product and most of these client has never been affected by recession - so why cant they pay out special dividend!!
It would be a BIG Disappointment if ID and SIAS cannot argue this with the Yen!!
It is clear to me the Yen are taking advantage of minority by paying themselves 1st on the 2mil and we need to press on
Expectations that the New Toyo will pay out special dividends (any time soon, if any) seem to have dampened quite a bit, to say the least...
Prepare for the worst case scenario....
(15-04-2012, 03:25 PM)Curiousparty Wrote: [ -> ]As stated by SAH in its most recent announcement, it will pay out a max of ONLY 50% from the sales proceeds.
So, there is a strong likelihood that the payout could be much less than 50%...
This might disappoint a lot of shareholders...Even then, it does not imply that New Toyo will automatically pay out to its own shareholders...
(14-04-2012, 12:12 AM)ValueBeliever Wrote: [ -> ]is it so hard to ask a reasonable question. SAH is money that was invested by NT. Funds return to NT and chairman decides to pay himself a ex-gratia payment? Shouldnt shldrs be entitled to a share of the proceeds if Mr. Yen is getting 2mil plus?
He is taking the opportunity to milk for himself while shldrs have to wait until when? He should have seen in the market nowadays, you cannot increase shldrs value unless you also raise the dividend and share price follow in tendum. We should also remind directors that having the same higher dividend yield is the direct result of depressed share price. We need to raise the bar now that he has asked for 2mil to be paid - pls justify?
How long more do we have to wait if NT is worth a lot more!! How do they intent to raise shldrs value if not dividend - no point talking - must put into practice! The business is afterall link to client that sell an addictive product and most of these client has never been affected by recession - so why cant they pay out special dividend!!
It would be a BIG Disappointment if ID and SIAS cannot argue this with the Yen!!
It is clear to me the Yen are taking advantage of minority by paying themselves 1st on the 2mil and we need to press on