ValueBuddies.com : Value Investing Forum - Singapore, Hong Kong, U.S.

My take is that:

Investment returns is not 100% maths.
Market got mood swings.
It doesn’t mean that if we want to make money, there is money to be made.
Also there is a possibility of black swan event when we least expect it.

My opinion:
Best to continue working (can choose a less stressful job) – can have steady flow of income to handle the family overheads.
Continue to set aside some savings.
Treat investment as part-time job.
Unless you want to be a trader, then it’s a different story

Think of the benefits if working for someone else: honestly we don’t really work so many hours although it’s stated 8-5.
If you minus all these:
annual leave, sick leave, hospitalization leave (touchwood), child care leave, paternity leave, compassionate leave, and for ladies – 4 mths maternity leave, also 104 days week-ends off, 11 PH, plus lunch time off, eat snake time, surf net time, klkk time… Did I miss out on anything?

Also don’t forget the free notebook, subsidized phone bills, company insurance, enjoy free air-con, etc. you may say I am myopic lol…
(Note: I am not discouraging people from becoming their own boss!)

So the savings from working + investment returns – will increase war chest amount.
Also the cpf contribution from employer and employee and interest accumulated – all these can form quite a significant sum when retirement comes.

Meanwhile continue to hone your investment skills.
Less stress = happy man

I think the above combination may be better off. Well, that’s my personal opinion only; can’t give you the experience you are looking for. For me, I rather keep my gun powder dry for an investment property.

Ultimately, it’s yr money, so it’s yr choice. But honestly, ½ mil is not a lot to work on, and not much leeway to manoeuvre.
As the saying goes: Many roads to Rome! And good luck!

Sidetrack: I once invested in a technology fund, the fund size got smaller and smaller, and in the end they got to close down this fund.
From $10K I got back only 1K plus.
When investing in funds, I think fund size above $500mil may be a safer bet, more room for the fund manager to manoeuvre.

If I recall correctly, there was a forum guy Dax, I think he posed a ? quite similar to yours, quite some time back. Wonder what happened to him? Did he make it? If he is still around, it would be interesting if he could share his experience with us.

Well, just some rumblings on a quiet afternoon!

(09-03-2015, 07:29 AM)funman168 Wrote: [ -> ]hi,
i am thinking of going to do investment fulltime for a living.
is it realistic to expect to be abt to generate 15% /yr?
i most probably will be using sm leverage like CFD to maximize gains
anybody can share w me their experience?

thanks in advance

A large part also boils down to personality.

Some get too emotional in investing. (especially when sitting on paper loses)

Some are just not cut out to be boss. Just the thought of having tens of thousands of dollars of fixed expenses each month totally puts them off. But tens of thousands of dollars is exactly what needs to be paid to run a small business.(Not referring to hawker stalls and macro businesses, even though hawkers can earn quite a fair bit but is extremely tiring)

I have a hawker friend, making decent money selling drinks/beer at a crowded hawker ctr. He decided to take a break on busiest period as he/his staff cant cope and it's just too tough. He probably could employ someone else to take over during the peak periods but he did not. Maybe due to trust issues. And he is not the only one, another was doing very well in making and selling Paos(buns) but as business was overwhelming good and he insisted on making the paos himself, he eventually surrendered and gave up the business, his hands could not take it anymore making paos 12 hours a day excluding other chores. Hawker life is tough, really tough.

thanks for all ur kind advice.
feel very unhappy although i am making abt $100k/yr from my job
wld rather led a simple lifestyle than be forever trap in society expectations.

is quite tough to live a simple life in sg
the old men and uncle and aunties still slogging in sweat at the hawker centre and foodcourts..
life in sg is just but a passing reality
the job keeps one from being mentally degnerated, like some said enjoy free air-con in the hot humid weather

In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

There is a basic requirement to investment as a living:

Savings

Regardless of one off gains from inheritance or windfall from TOTO/4D or even a sudden surge in share price.
There must be savings.As many buddies here may reveal a little of their spending styles:

Take public transport

Constantly seeking value in almost anything and keeping a sharp eye on expenses. It is different from being miserly. That is just hoarding loads of money without investing it for future or current returns.

I am certain that most buddies here can afford a car in Cat A or even in Cat B and even buy a round the world ticket in business class... every year.
Delaying gratification, knowing value rather than price are hallmarks of prudent millionaires.

The other requirement is to invest using money that you are willing to lock up or even lose.
Never use money that you currently need.

And if you spend less time at shopping malls, you may get the excercise needed.. Bukit Timah hill, Macritchie, Pierce reservoirs, East Coast park.. all free (except transport there )

Enjoying the sunshine, breeze and knowing that your money is well invested to provide additional income or as replacement income during retirement.

Life can be simple if you want it to be. Just live in it.

(10-03-2015, 10:39 PM)funman168 Wrote: [ -> ]thanks for all ur kind advice.
feel very unhappy although i am making abt $100k/yr from my job
wld rather led a simple lifestyle than be forever trap in society expectations.

unhappy about job can always change job it's only about work take lower stress job but everywhere also same kind of people same crap

think of some kind of 1 man show job that don't have to deal with people you don't like tution really sounds like a good idea, another good idea is training people's pets if you have this kind of knack. A neighbor around my area is doing this train other people's pet birds to sing - imagine that.

(10-03-2015, 11:09 PM)soros Wrote: [ -> ]In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

If just consider 1 person, somewhere around $1500/mth (present value) will be good enough. For a couple, it will be $2500/mth. If based on 5% return, will need $600k invested, and additional saving of $150k for 5yrs of expenses.

hi ntl,
my own estimation is
single, 500k cap, 25k pa
couple, 800k cap, 40k pa
family, >1M, >60k pa

(11-03-2015, 06:08 AM)NTL Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-03-2015, 11:09 PM)soros Wrote: [ -> ]In an earlier post, Big Toe has mentioned needing to invest $2-$3 Million for " living modestly ".

Assuming the mortgage has been paid off and not running a car , what do members consider the minimum annual income for 12 months is required for modest living by a retired person .?

If just consider 1 person, somewhere around $1500/mth (present value) will be good enough. For a couple, it will be $2500/mth. If based on 5% return, will need $600k invested, and additional saving of $150k for 5yrs of expenses.

(10-03-2015, 10:39 PM)funman168 Wrote: [ -> ]thanks for all ur kind advice.
feel very unhappy although i am making abt $100k/yr from my job
wld rather led a simple lifestyle than be forever trap in society expectations.

Bro, I got an idea for u: go solo and impart your skills

I remember years back when I was selling a guitar amp to a full time musician. Talked to him a bit and realised he was doing quite ok, gigging at nights and teaching music in the mornings. Timing and schedule were at his own pace. Interestingly, he got more revenue from teaching and still had time for his own stuff - making original music.

If anything, I learnt it is also possible to grow wealth with lower intensity, alternative professions. A tutoring career is more flexible and you can put the earnings back to investing. Over time you can also focus more on the investing part should you really want to.

My sense is that you are more keen to leave your current profession than to be a full time investor, so it may be good to reframe the issue.

Good luck and hope u find happiness in life.

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