ValueBuddies.com : Value Investing Forum - Singapore, Hong Kong, U.S.

Just relax guys, there is only 3 options, buy if u are buying their story, sell/short if you don't believe in their story or 3rd stay on the sideline and see how it unfolds

Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

I reckon good answer can be found in the trail of previous posts.

(not vested, but learning in the sideline)

(03-07-2015, 09:25 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

I reckon good answer can be found in the trail of previous posts.

(not vested, but learning in the sideline)

Dear Admin Cityfarmer

Thank you. Oldman checked but can't find straight forward answers in the last ten or so pages. Anyway, will try to check again. Would be great if some kind soul can contribute. Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

(03-07-2015, 09:56 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 09:25 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

I reckon good answer can be found in the trail of previous posts.

(not vested, but learning in the sideline)

Dear Admin Cityfarmer

Thank you. Oldman checked but can't find straight forward answers in the last ten or so pages. Anyway, will try to check again. Would be great if some kind soul can contribute. Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

It's an interesting point that Oldman has brought up. Yes, it would be great if some kind soul can help senior citizens among us. Thank you.

Do a search on portuser posts for facts

You can search my posts for laughs

(03-07-2015, 11:04 AM)budgetier Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 09:56 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 09:25 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

I reckon good answer can be found in the trail of previous posts.

(not vested, but learning in the sideline)

Dear Admin Cityfarmer

Thank you. Oldman checked but can't find straight forward answers in the last ten or so pages. Anyway, will try to check again. Would be great if some kind soul can contribute. Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

It's an interesting point that Oldman has brought up. Yes, it would be great if some kind soul can help senior citizens among us. Thank you.

Ok, Lets make it short.

the public's concern :
1. When is the A1 submission form and IPO Sucess
2. Company will face hefty penalty if they dont fulfil A1 by 25th July
3. How the company is going to handle the redemption of bond trench 1 & 2.
3. Expectation of high revenue / profit to sustain the health of SG's Book
4. The prospect and growth of the company
5. If the Thai Investor is serious and are they able to bring prosperity to SG.
6. The potential of their product in the beverage and canned food segment
7. Market Share of this company.


Correct me if im wrong or i miss out something. Any expert to address all this ?

Attached is the English translation of a portion of TTA' s AGM minutes. Here, a shareholder asked the management about TTA' s acquisition of Sino Grandness

Mr. Somboon Eurmareewong (A shareholder) : With regard to the Company's investment into Sino Grandness by spending the amount of THB 611 million, please provide a general overview of the business, market size, business rank within the same industry including financial figures such as assets, income, profits as well as channels of distribution of more than 250 locations previously presented. If compared to other competitors, please advise if this kind of business has distribution channels more or less than other competitors, including the product popularity.


Mr. Chia Wan Huat Joseph (Director) : For the question no. 3, Sino Grandness was incorporated in 1997 in China operating an export of canned vegetables to European market. Their current revenues were earned approximately at THB 10,000 million and last year they achieved THB 2,000 million profits. From year 2009, Sino has started producing and selling loquat drink or pee pae (枇 杷 果 ) a new ready-to- drink juice. China has now served their consumers in a new different drinking market apart from the present market of fruit drinks or herbal drinks. The new market is called functional drink (drinks that are healthy to your body). This new market has included sub-markets of the loquat fruit juice where Sino Grandness owns market share of the loquat juice for more than 80% and distribution channels of more than 250 locations covering the North to the South areas of China such as Shenzhen city thorugh Tesco, Carrfour and Seven Eleven. Moreover, Sino Grandness started its first export to the overseas market in Hong Kong. However, Sino Grandness still keeps its focus on the sale in China as a primary market and achieved profits from the loquat fruit drinks around THB 1,500 million in the previous year.


As mentioned, Sino Grandness could be used to the Company's good advantage especially in terms of the distribution channels throughout the country. If the Company wishes to export its products to China, market channels already exist. This includes the opportunity to improve products of Sino Grandness to be more universal. The Company anticipates growth potential of this business and in the coming years the Company will be able to work closely with Sino Grandness to develop products and mobilize more exports.


Mr. Prasert Bunsumpun (Chairman) : Added that Sino Grandness is a company with a great potential of growth. Given TTA&rsquo s vision to be a leading holding company in Asia that is open to diversity beyond the range of its core businesses, the investment in Sino Grandness was made on a low-cost-high-return basis which adds up value of the Company.



This shows that TTA plans to be very involved in Sino Grandness and that the purchase was not just a financial investment. As such, careful due dilligence must have been done to ascertain the compatibility between the two companies.

What TTA told its shareholders about the investment has been consistent with what Sino Grandness told us.

(03-07-2015, 05:03 PM)fattboy Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 11:04 AM)budgetier Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 09:56 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 09:25 AM)CityFarmer Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]Hi All

Oldman invested in this company not too long ago.

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

Can anyone enlighten oldman ?

cheers oldman9

I reckon good answer can be found in the trail of previous posts.

(not vested, but learning in the sideline)

Dear Admin Cityfarmer

Thank you. Oldman checked but can't find straight forward answers in the last ten or so pages. Anyway, will try to check again. Would be great if some kind soul can contribute. Thank you.

cheers
oldman9

It's an interesting point that Oldman has brought up. Yes, it would be great if some kind soul can help senior citizens among us. Thank you.

Ok, Lets make it short.

the public's concern :
1. When is the A1 submission form and IPO Sucess
2. Company will face hefty penalty if they dont fulfil A1 by 25th July
3. How the company is going to handle the redemption of bond trench 1 & 2.
3. Expectation of high revenue / profit to sustain the health of SG's Book
4. The prospect and growth of the company
5. If the Thai Investor is serious and are they able to bring prosperity to SG.
6. The potential of their product in the beverage and canned food segment
7. Market Share of this company.


Correct me if im wrong or i miss out something. Any expert to address all this ?

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]........

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

...............

The terms of the bonds are onerous and they pose risks to Sino Grandness.

Garden Fresh had to earn RMB 70m in 2011 and RMB 140m in 2012 as the initial conditions for bondholders to exchange the bonds for Garden Fresh shares.

How well Garden Fresh performed in 2013 would determine the extent of dilution of Sino's current 100% shareholding interest in Garden Fresh. If Garden Fresh earned at least RMB 250m, dilution would be the lowest, at 24.7%. A much lower profit would result in 49.9% being taken by bondholders.

As Garden Fresh was incorporated only in 2010, profits of RMB 70m, RMB 140m and RMB 250m were daunting numbers in comparison with the RMB 100m profit from Sino's established canning business. The possibility of losing a big chunk of Garden Fresh was unsettling.

Garden Fresh had sailed through, nevertheless. Bondholders are now entitled to 23.4% of Garden Fresh when it gets listed.

(In October 2014, bonds of principal amount of RMB 19.5m were redeemed, lowering bondholders' stakes to 23.4% from 24.7%.)

There have been suggestions of bondholders not paying much attention to the state of affairs in Garden Fresh. The contrary is more likely as bondholders are aware of the risk of ending up with lower stakes in an overvalued Garden Fresh.

On a related matter, Thoresen Thai Agencies' (TTA) decision to subscribe 60.6m Sino Grandness shares and lock up 47m for ten years was likely made after careful deliberations.

Discussions during AGM of TTA suggest that TTA wants to bring Sino Grandness to greater heights (see yesterday's post from Crubs).

TTA has classified Sino Grandness as its associated company (even though its 9% stake is way below the usual 20% threshold) on the basis that it has significant influence over Sino Grandness.

(05-07-2015, 07:57 AM)portuser Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-07-2015, 08:34 AM)Oldman9 Wrote: [ -> ]........

Due to the recent extension of the 1st tranche bonds, there has been a lot of discussions in other forums and among friends concerning this topic. Some are saying that Sino Grandness has taken too much risk by subscribing to the two series of bonds without giving reasons why.

...............

The terms of the bonds are onerous and they pose risks to Sino Grandness.

Garden Fresh had to earn RMB 70m in 2011 and RMB 140m in 2012 as the initial conditions for bondholders to exchange the bonds for Garden Fresh shares.

How well Garden Fresh performed in 2013 would determine the extent of dilution of Sino's current 100% shareholding interest in Garden Fresh. If Garden Fresh earned at least RMB 250m, dilution would be the lowest, at 24.7%. A much lower profit would result in 49.9% being taken by bondholders.

As Garden Fresh was incorporated only in 2010, profits of RMB 70m, RMB 140m and RMB 250m were daunting numbers in comparison with the RMB 100m profit from Sino's established canning business. The possibility of losing a big chunk of Garden Fresh was unsettling.

Garden Fresh had sailed through, nevertheless. Bondholders are now entitled to 23.4% of Garden Fresh when it gets listed.

(In October 2014, bonds of principal amount of RMB 19.5m were redeemed, lowering bondholders' stakes to 23.4% from 24.7%.)

There have been suggestions of bondholders not paying much attention to the state of affairs in Garden Fresh. The contrary is more likely as bondholders are aware of the risk of ending up with lower stakes in an overvalued Garden Fresh.

On a related matter, Thoresen Thai Agencies' (TTA) decision to subscribe 60.6m Sino Grandness shares and lock up 47m for ten years was likely made after careful deliberations.

Discussions during AGM of TTA suggest that TTA wants to bring Sino Grandness to greater heights (see yesterday's post from Crubs).

TTA has classified Sino Grandness as its associated company (even though its 9% stake is way below the usual 20% threshold) on the basis that it has significant influence over Sino Grandness.

Crubs & Portuser

Thanks a million for your posts.
Words cannot describe how reassuring I am now.
Thank you again.