纯果乐 aka Tropicana is an American brand and it does not have loquat drinks.
Garden Fresh is a Chinese brand.
There are big differences between the 2 brands and the competition between Tropicana and Garden Fresh may not be so significant.
A closer competitor to Tropicana orange juice in China is Minute Maid.
(01-07-2015, 01:47 PM)cracker Wrote: [ -> ]I feel the extension simply leaves us none the wiser. 2 important issues that this binary event was meant to reveal are still not resolved as a result of the extension.
1. Does the company really have the cash and cash-flow?
2. Does the company have any genuine intention to IPO? (Presumably IF the Newman9 allegations are valid, it wouldn't dare to given the criminal liability? Then again you never know - history has shown us s-chips like China Gaoxian successfully achieving a dual listing in South Korea but then not long after the dual listing it was suspended and proven to be a fraud. So even a successful IPO is not a full-proof thing.)
Because of the extension, there is still no clear answer to these 2 questions.
Company could have told bondholders 'give us more time, we are still preparing to IPO, if you redeem your shares now you will lose out.' Come 25th July, it is perfectly possible that they could tow the same line and get it further extended. Of course if they keep doing that there will come a time where patience and limits are truly tested, and push comes to shove, and then perhaps only then will we truly know.
I think the best scenario for shareholders would be if come July 25th, company chooses to pay back bondholders for most of the bonds, and only allows them to convert a small%. This retains some institutional ownership, reduces dilution, but most importantly, proves that they have the cash to pay back. Cash doesn't lie - if they can pay back that few hundred million, their business is probably real. But until and unless that happens, we cannot know for sure.
Personally I've recently been to Sichuan, Zhejiang, Fujian and Shanghai and couldn't find 鲜绿园 being sold in any of the supermarkets or small convenience stores. I had better luck in Shenzhen, where I found it in quite a few major supermarkets and many 7 Eleven stores. But then again, Shenzhen is supposed to be their home-ground so you would expect that. I would have thought that for a juice brand supposedly achieving their sales volume, their products would have been more widely found outside of Shenzhen. Instead, I found it much easier to find their major competitor of similar reported sales volume - 纯果乐 - which I believe is a collaboration between Tingyi and Pepsi Cola. It's everywhere.
Anyway, what do I know? Just sharing my thoughts on the company and experience in China. Make of it what you will. Personally I feel the risk is too high and that there is too much uncertainty. But to all who decide to take the risk, good luck to you.
Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
(01-07-2015, 02:56 PM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ]Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
There is a difference between the two.
Greece, the party that owes the money, asked for extension.
Sino Grandness did not request bondholders to extend the bonds. If the request was made by Sino instead, bondholders in all likelihood would want this fact to be clearly stated.
Sino Grandness Announcement on 26 Jun 2015 ".., the Board of Directors of Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Limited (the “Company”) wishes to announce that Bondholders holding RMB80,500,000 in principal amount of the Convertible Bonds have notified the Company of their intention to extend the Maturity Date of the Convertible Bonds from 30 June 2015 to 25 July 2015."
(01-07-2015, 02:56 PM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ]Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
I hope greece can extend payment by 25 days too.......
No no no , i hope germany beg greece to extend payment by 25 days to earn interest...
No no no .....
(01-07-2015, 03:51 PM)budgetier Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2015, 02:56 PM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ]Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
There is a difference between the two.
Greece, the party that owes the money, asked for extension.
Sino Grandness did not request bondholders to extend the bonds. If the request was made by Sino instead, bondholders in all likelihood would want this fact to be clearly stated.
Sino Grandness Announcement on 26 Jun 2015 ".., the Board of Directors of Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Limited (the “Company”) wishes to announce that Bondholders holding RMB80,500,000 in principal amount of the Convertible Bonds have notified the Company of their intention to extend the Maturity Date of the Convertible Bonds from 30 June 2015 to 25 July 2015."
I havent seen the bond conventant , but there should be nothing stopping the company from paying the bond holders at maturity date.........request or not
I am still wondering..........
(01-07-2015, 10:16 PM)newborn1000 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2015, 03:51 PM)budgetier Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2015, 02:56 PM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ]Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
There is a difference between the two.
Greece, the party that owes the money, asked for extension.
Sino Grandness did not request bondholders to extend the bonds. If the request was made by Sino instead, bondholders in all likelihood would want this fact to be clearly stated.
Sino Grandness Announcement on 26 Jun 2015 ".., the Board of Directors of Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Limited (the “Company”) wishes to announce that Bondholders holding RMB80,500,000 in principal amount of the Convertible Bonds have notified the Company of their intention to extend the Maturity Date of the Convertible Bonds from 30 June 2015 to 25 July 2015."
I havent seen the bond conventant , but there should be nothing stopping the company from paying the bond holders at maturity date.........request or not
I am still wondering..........
Wrong. Why should Sino be paying bondholder at maturity date (incl. penalty) when bondholder is requesting for extension? This is crazy. IF there is going to be any payment, preference is to have the form A1 submitted first to avoid the hefty penalty. Since the A1 form is not yet submitted and bondholder requested for extension, why should they pay?
If bondholder wants Huang to cough up the money, then they would have requested payment instead of extension. Very good money for them, why not?
This extension is a strong indication that bondholders may have info on the progress of IPO preparation and when it is going to finally happen..Since they have waited for more than 2 yrs why cant they wait a little longer, say 3 to 6 months for a much more lucrative deal when Garden fresh is finally listed?
If there is going to be any redemption, it is still not too late. As long as the bond has not expired, Huang can still make the redemption after submitting the A1 form.
Much weight has been assigned to the recent purchases by the Thai. A forumer has also stated that the Thais have board representation in the loquat. In the eyes of the law, the Thais are connected persons as they have a board representation and are a substantial shareholder. Supporters of the loquat claimed that surely the Thai knows something. They should ask if the Thai is privy to price sensitive information regarding the IPO progress.
Save for the recent announcement on the extension of the bond redemption deadline, the investment community has been kept largely in the dark. As the IPO event is a binary event and one which is definitely price sensitive, can forumers please comment on any possible infringement on insider trading laws by the Thais for this situation should they be in possession of material price sensitive information and have dealt in the securities of the Loquat?
(01-07-2015, 10:16 PM)newborn1000 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2015, 03:51 PM)budgetier Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2015, 02:56 PM)desmondxyz Wrote: [ -> ]Keep extending the bond payment....doesn't it sound familiar? GREXIT?
There is a difference between the two.
Greece, the party that owes the money, asked for extension.
Sino Grandness did not request bondholders to extend the bonds. If the request was made by Sino instead, bondholders in all likelihood would want this fact to be clearly stated.
Sino Grandness Announcement on 26 Jun 2015 ".., the Board of Directors of Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Limited (the “Company”) wishes to announce that Bondholders holding RMB80,500,000 in principal amount of the Convertible Bonds have notified the Company of their intention to extend the Maturity Date of the Convertible Bonds from 30 June 2015 to 25 July 2015."
I havent seen the bond conventant , but there should be nothing stopping the company from paying the bond holders at maturity date.........request or not
I am still wondering..........
Bro , wonder no more.
If you pull back the previous pages in this thread, spend some effort in reading the scenario case study of this extension, you will understand the whole happenings.
Alternatively , you may access the latest Nextinsight link below to clarified your doubts : (posted on 30th June 2015)
http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php/sto...sion-imply
Spend sometime in reading and clarifying your understanding with us.
(30-06-2015, 02:15 PM)crubs Wrote: [ -> ]Just read the latest article on Sino Grandness on Next Insight.
http://www.nextinsight.net/index.php/sto...sion-imply
One benefit of the extension is that Sino Grandness would have to pay a lower rate of 15% from 20 Oct 2014 to 25 July if the listing application (A1) is submitted instead of the 25% from 20 Oct 2014 to 30 June 2015.
But if the listing application gets delayed beyond 25 July, won't the compounding 15% interest eventually be more than the 25% interest that Sino Grandness have to pay if they had paid on 30 June 2015 itself ?
Annoucement had been made indirectly by The thai coffee king in my opinion.
His recent activity in the market indicate price is "cheap" and also A1 is coming.
He could have wait until the cow come home and slowly accum his shares. But No, he keep buying recently, i think he wants to incorporate his network and sino grandness network to reinvent a synergy that will bring this company to new heights.
And trust me, if price is right, he will either play his part along or buy over the whole company with Nestle as his backup.
He is pending his time sitting quietly while his son debble with sino grandness boardroom. Thai coffee king is a king not in namesake , he earn his throne in the industry. Dont belittle this man's ability or his 靠山 Nestle. Once they take over , they wont have to worry about setting up factories and plants, or operation network, the frame is already there nicely in china.
They just need to utilise management talent and contacts in the distribution network. To them , the structural framework is there already, they only need to chiong and capture market share fast and effectively.
Dont look down on the tom yum gong.... They got french toast bread behind them
(02-07-2015, 12:39 AM)chinafarmer Wrote: [ -> ]Much weight has been assigned to the recent purchases by the Thai. A forumer has also stated that the Thais have board representation in the loquat. In the eyes of the law, the Thais are connected persons as they have a board representation and are a substantial shareholder. Supporters of the loquat claimed that surely the Thai knows something. They should ask if the Thai is privy to price sensitive information regarding the IPO progress.
Save for the recent announcement on the extension of the bond redemption deadline, the investment community has been kept largely in the dark. As the IPO event is a binary event and one which is definitely price sensitive, can forumers please comment on any possible infringement on insider trading laws by the Thais for this situation should they be in possession of material price sensitive information and have dealt in the securities of the Loquat?
hmm, good point , im a newbie seeking enlightenment too.
i think the news that Sino Grandness's IPO is in progress and Huang's July Time frame has been made known to the public since Ice Age.
I suggest you should report to MAS / SGX regarding this Topic and clear our doubt?