I always can learn new stuff in VB. Beneish M-score for account manipulation? Interesting?
(not vested)
(11-03-2015, 05:53 PM)getrich Wrote: [ -> ]I personally wouldn't touch Sino Grandness.
Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Ltd has a Beneish M-score of -0.96 which implies that it might have manipulated its financial results.
Quote:DEFINITION of 'Beneish Model'
A mathematical model that uses financial ratios and eight variables to identify whether a company has manipulated its earnings. The variables are constructed from the data in the company's financial statements and, once calculated, create an M-Score to describe the degree to which the earnings have been manipulated.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beneishmodel.asp
Why aren't the Thai investors buying the shares at this moment?
Could it be that the Thais would rather use the money to help Garden Fresh/Sino Grandness fund the redemption of its issued bonds in July 2015, if the IPO does not materialize and the bondholders choose not to roll over the bond?
This could be in the form of a shareholder loan, director's loan or a direct stake in Garden Fresh by taking over all or part of the bond conversion rights.
(11-03-2015, 05:53 PM)getrich Wrote: [ -> ]I personally wouldn't touch Sino Grandness.
Sino Grandness Food Industry Group Ltd has a Beneish M-score of -0.96 which implies that it might have manipulated its financial results.
Quote:DEFINITION of 'Beneish Model'
A mathematical model that uses financial ratios and eight variables to identify whether a company has manipulated its earnings. The variables are constructed from the data in the company's financial statements and, once calculated, create an M-Score to describe the degree to which the earnings have been manipulated.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/beneishmodel.asp
Hi getrich, thanks for the informative post, where can I find the Benish score for Sino and other listed company?
so cheap, thais should buy-in from open market!! gosh! what are they waiting for?!!
Cheap is relative.
Cheat me once, shame on you
Cheat me twice, shame on me!
brattzz Wrote:so cheap, thais should buy-in from open market!! gosh! what are they waiting for?!!
Compared to probable value of ZERO, any positive value is deemed expensive
(11-03-2015, 06:10 PM)zxiank Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we need to debate on who is correct and who is not? Specuvestor might be wrong in his views but if he's not vested, he lose nothing (maybe his ego). On the other hand, if the vested investors assumed something is correct and held on but the company ended up not as promised, then they will lose more than their ego.
The warnings and red flags around Sino Grandness can't be confirmed (if not they won't be warnings, they will be real fraud), but why not step back and evaluate both sides, rather than just rejecting/debating about the warnings.
(11-03-2015, 04:53 PM)simpleman Wrote: [ -> ]Specuvestor
Some investors said that incorporation of companies in the Cayman Islands and Hong Kong points to IPO process being in an advanced stage.
They also said that the appointment Euromonitor suggests that verification of sales etc has been completed.
Do you think they are correct.
Regular forumers know that I am neither anti s-chips nor anti-PAP; I'm anti red flag and anti bad policies/ proposals
I've always said that Mr Market does not requires one to buy a ticket to watch or learn from the show. In this case the fat lady sings in June. It's a binary event as discussed with CY09.
I have actually said that incorporating company is a good incremental sign. I take facts as it is. But incremental is not the same as advanced stage. Advanced stage is when red herring or road show are coming out.
And yes I could be wrong in the analysis, but I hope to keep the principles right. I hope to think that regular forumers can see that I don't have a very biased view from my varied positive and negative posts in contentious companies like Yangzijiang to Eratat to even Olam / Noble to Blumont and of course SinoG, depending on the facts I observed.
SGFI have just recently completed the company reorganisation required for the SpinOff. As announced by SGIF on SGX, "As part of the on-going Proposed SpinOff,
the Group announced in January 2015 the incorporation of Garden Fresh Group Holding Co., Ltd (鲜绿园集团控股有限公司) in Cayman Islands as well as Garden
Fresh Group Co., Limited (鲜绿园集团股份有限公司) in Hong Kong."
This follows after due diligence is completed as described in the IPO process flow chart. For an overview of the HKSE IPO process flow chart, click..
http://www.conpak.com/Main-Procedures-of-IPO.html.
From A1 form submission to listing is about 2 months on average. For those interested on the details and time required, click..
https://www.hkex.com.hk/eng/listing/list...t_main.htm
By the way the following independent professional parties are hired for IPO processes.
>> Sponsors - click link for list of sponsors in
http://www.sfc.hk/publicregWeb/listOfSponsor
>> Reporting Accountants
>> Legal Advisers
>> Valuers
>> Underwriters / Placing Agents
>> Printers
>> Public Relation Agents
>> Others
check here >>
https://www.hkex.com.hk/eng/listing/listhk/faq.htm
Hmm..am wondering what would they (sponsors) do now if they had detected that SGFI is a fraud? Would they still proceed to request SGIF to setup those two companies (cayman/HK)? Maybe not ..could be the printers that advised them. Lol.
Hi Leeta
As per my post, incorporating is an incrementally good sign things are happening. But it should have happened before June-September last year for the IPO. Furthermore incorporating a Cayman entity is roughly US$100k compared to the bigger scheme of things.
The catalyst that vested should watch for is the A1 submission. Sometime after they will start looking for anchors and sign NDAs. Most people like myself don't watch that until the red herring and underwriters start talking about it after it's cleared. Of the list of Sponsors, do you know who is the sponsor for this IPO? Logically should be Goldman...
(13-03-2015, 11:13 AM)specuvestor Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Leeta
As per my post, incorporating is an incrementally good sign things are happening. But it should have happened before June-September last year for the IPO. Furthermore incorporating a Cayman entity is roughly US$100k compared to the bigger scheme of things.
The catalyst that vested should watch for is the A1 submission. Sometime after they will start looking for anchors and sign NDAs. Most people like myself don't watch that until the red herring and underwriters start talking about it after it's cleared. Of the list of Sponsors, do you know who is the sponsor for this IPO? Logically should be Goldman...
Hi Specuvestor,
Agree that it is a good sign. Believe that company can only act when they are told to. Dont think they can jump the gun. Not wise to spend USD100k when not given all clear. Also agree that they should have done the IPO earlier, then the share price would have been different today.
Yes the the catalyst is the A1 form submission that those vested should be looking forward to. Hope they come soon. Am not sure who the sponsors are...could be Goldman.