(24-01-2013, 06:48 PM)Musicwhiz Wrote: [ -> ]Sorry to say but the financial industry is not indicative of the average/median salary of Singaporeans.
And no offense to you, but I generally feel that bankers are overpaid! 
Whether bankers are overpaid or not, it is easy to draw the right conclusions from the 2008 financial crisis. What I am absolutely certain is that engineers are underpaid. I have met older engineers in their late 40s, way smarter than me, but paid far below the 10k that 2V mentioned. The lesson drawn is ...
being in the right place at the right time is far more important than being smart and working hard. I have encountered far too many smart and hardworking engineers who did not meet with a good end, career-wise. However, they seem happy because they like their work because engineering is mainly about problem-solving. This can be fun work which is one reason I stayed on as an engineer despite being retrenched more than once. Unfortunately, I am not sure if I can still find an engineering job the next time I get retrenched.
I agree with Hyom even when I am from the financial industry. Obama himself said that the US should concentrate on industries that actually make something. I don't consider financial engineering as "making something". At least government ministers make the future, whether we like it or not.
The main purpose of markets are price discovery and transfer of assets. "High" finance has become a monster by itself.
2V must be relatively young. Many agents make tons of money but it says nothing of their self worth or self actualisation. I guess it depends on what you want in life. You can make a lot of money being a liar as well.
Im in late 30s, wouldnt regard myself young anymore. Being through 97' Asia Financial crisis, CLOB shares closure, Dot.com collapse, SARS, 911, Bullrun0 6-07, Global financial cisis 08/09, market rally'10, Euro crisis 11/12....
My career and my bank accounts been through roller coasters of multi Ups and Downs. There are emotional , excitement and stressful moments...Well thats part of life, you win some and lost some.
The moment of Truth will only be reveal in time of crisis. As what WB mentioned - "It takes twenty years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."
Sadly I have seem too many examples of liars, betrayals and scammers in the past 4 years.
(24-01-2013, 08:51 PM)specuvestor Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Hyom even when I am from the financial industry. Obama himself said that the US should concentrate on industries that actually make something. I don't consider financial engineering as "making something". At least government ministers make the future, whether we like it or not.
The main purpose of markets are price discovery and transfer of assets. "High" finance has become a monster by itself.
2V must be relatively young. Many agents make tons of money but it says nothing of their self worth or self actualisation. I guess it depends on what you want in life. You can make a lot of money being a liar as well.
care to share some of these examples u met in the last 4 years?
Retrenchment is a emotional event- I was called in my boss office. "There going to be departments merger, right now there are 15 headcount, we need to let go 10. Who do you suggest ?" Some of them are my friends, I have colleagues who have heavy financial commitment...its a emotional decision...
There are alot of Pre-IPO during 07, although most of us are financially trained, but we invest it base on trust. When market turn ugly, we are told the investment is gone. I investigated further and realised there are simply too many questions remained unanswer... I trusted someone whom will scrafice friends for personal interest. I can only blamed myself, I should do all the investment due diligence myself, not on trust.
During the market crash in yr08, all the stocks fall almost weekly basis. I have a close friend got into trouble on stock margins financing. He is in financial stress on top-up his margin calls , even to the extend utilising all his overdrafts. I have lend him $$$$ to top up margin calls for months and even to the extend of paying his overdraft monthly payments for months. Three years later, he then disclosed he bought a District 10 Condo during yr08 and made almost $1M by selling now. He used me to finance his leverage, I endup losing my opportunities cost.
2V I apologise for misjudging your age. Most of us would have "looked through" life by that age.
For the last scenario I hope you at least got your money back. There are those who doesn't, even with close friends. But I always tell myself that's a cheap price to pay not to be deceived by that "friendship" for the next 30 years.
Yes I did got my money back. i do agree its a cheap price to pay because I believe in later years more $$$$ will be involve. I value friendship alot which was why I defy my wife protest and go ahead to lend $$$. It turn out a poor judgment call. Sometime , women do have "six sense feel" of people that we shouldnt ignore.
Life is a journey. You win some and will loss some. In my early years 97, I lost alot in stock market and bailed out by another good friend's life saving. Over the years, I have helped him in his investments. Thats what friends are for.
Whether he is a real friend or foe, you can only test in time of crisis
(24-01-2013, 10:27 PM)specuvestor Wrote: [ -> ]2V I apologise for misjudging your age. Most of us would have "looked through" life by that age.
For the last scenario I hope you at least got your money back. There are those who doesn't, even with close friends. But I always tell myself that's a cheap price to pay not to be deceived by that "friendship" for the next 30 years.
so he used your money cheaply and freely to flip the property. these r e guys that causes house to be beyond the reach of the masses..well done.
(24-01-2013, 08:51 PM)specuvestor Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Hyom even when I am from the financial industry. Obama himself said that the US should concentrate on industries that actually make something. I don't consider financial engineering as "making something". At least government ministers make the future, whether we like it or not.
The main purpose of markets are price discovery and transfer of assets. "High" finance has become a monster by itself.
Thanks. I thought someone from the financial industry would call engineers like me sour grapes.
During lunch time with my engineering colleagues, it is not uncommon to hear remarks like bankers behaving badly and not deserving their lot after what happened in 2008. Ironically, I ended up defending the bankers by pointing out that the CEO engineers behaved just as badly in the late 1990s dot-com bust when Silicon Valley lobbied for stock options not to be expensed in the income statement. They defrauded investors because the money was too good. Not much difference from Wall Street. In the end, it just boils down to perverse incentives that drive even good people to do evil things.
However, there is one critical difference between the tech bubble in 2000 and the housing/high finance fiasco in 2008. The tech bubble, even though it caused the loss of much investors' money, at least gave us productive assets like the Internet, broadband, free websites, Google etc. In contrast, can one think of any comparable useful outcome that will emerge from the rubble of the housing bubble and high finance fiasco in 2008?
(12-02-2013, 09:17 PM)hyom Wrote: [ -> ]In contrast, can one think of any comparable useful outcome that will emerge from the rubble of the housing bubble and high finance fiasco in 2008?
More fiat money in quantities around the world can cure all kind of financial crises?
One thing I fear would happen is that the new generation of Central Bankers worldwide would regard printing money as the end-whatever-crisis-you-name-it solution.
That would tip our world truly in another era.