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(31-08-2012, 09:10 AM)snowcap Wrote: [ -> ]

(30-08-2012, 08:52 PM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ]how did u know they get 1 month for 1 year of service?

I think this is market practice - MOM may also have some guideline for "fair" retrenchment practices. I recall a friend was terminated "unfairly" and complained to MOM - in the end MOM got the company to pay "1 month per year of service".

In 2008, my company (A BIG US MNC) conducted a retrencement exercise..
1 months severance pay for each years of service BUT CAPPED AT 6 MONTHS !!!!!!

MOM does not interfere so long as the company pays severance package..
The devil lies in the details...

(31-08-2012, 09:25 AM)Zelphon Wrote: [ -> ]

(31-08-2012, 09:10 AM)snowcap Wrote: [ -> ]

(30-08-2012, 08:52 PM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ]how did u know they get 1 month for 1 year of service?

I think this is market practice - MOM may also have some guideline for "fair" retrenchment practices. I recall a friend was terminated "unfairly" and complained to MOM - in the end MOM got the company to pay "1 month per year of service".

In 2008, my company (A BIG US MNC) conducted a retrencement exercise..
1 months severance pay for each years of service BUT CAPPED AT 6 MONTHS !!!!!!

MOM does not interfere so long as the company pays severance package..
The devil lies in the details...

Well from what I know the rule is MOM does not interfere if your pay is above $850/mth.

My relative got laid off awhile back, worked at advertising company for 6 years pay around 3.5k, pioneer staff too worked there from the day they opened shop till the day got laid off. Didn't even get a single cent for severance pay. Went to MOM for help and got turned away and say it's between my relative and employer they don't want to interfere, sucks man then MOM purpose is for what? dun want to take care our people only clever at sourcing where to find many FT and bring them in by the horde.

I seen many people loyal to their company like marriage thru thick and thin then later got laid off this way, I'm never loyal to any company.

sgd Wrote:Well from what I know the rule is MOM does not interfere if your pay is above $850/mth.

From the MOM website at:

http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practic...fault.aspx
===
The Employment Act covers every employee (regardless of nationality) who is under a contract of service with an employer, except:

Any person employed in a managerial or executive position
Any seaman;
Any domestic worker; and
Any person employed by a Statutory Board or the Government.

Part IV of the Act, which provides for rest days, hours of work and other conditions of service, applies only to:

Workmen earning not more than $4,500 basic monthly salaries and
Employees earning not more than $2,000 basic monthly salaries.

...
Junior managers and executives earning $4,500 basic monthly salary and below are only covered partially on the basic payment of salary. All other provisions do not apply to them.
...
A workman is an employee whose work involves manual labour.

======
If the Employment Act does not apply to you, you are on your own. The company is under no obligation to pay ANY severance if they ask you to leave. Nor are they required to limit your working hours, grant you any annual leave, medical benefits etc.

Some things to think about:

Many employees would be considered managers or executives as they have decision-making responsibility (this includes professionals like accountants, doctors, dentists and lawyers).

All civil servants are excluded from the Act.

All maids are excluded from the Act.

My relative and a few other in that company that got laid off did try to negotiate failing to do so, they went to MOM who told them long story but essentially it was their own problem.

http://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practic...fault.aspx

Under the Employment Act, an employee who has been employed in a company for at least three years can request for retrenchment benefits if he/she is retrenched.

As the law does not stipulate the quantum to be paid, the amount is subject to negotiation between the employee and employer. The quantum will also depend on the company's financial position.

An employee who has worked less than three years in a company is not entitled to retrenchment benefits under the Employment Act. However, the company may pay an ex-gratia payment at its discretion.

Both retrenchment benefits and ex-gratia payments do not attract CPF contributions.

---

maybe not $850 but above $2.5k MOM will not help you

http://www.transitioning.org/2010/06/14/...mployment/

Good day to you. Let me share my unhappy dismissal story with you.

I joined my company on 1st July 08 and on 22 Jan 09 (before Chinese New Year) was informed of my retrenchment ten minutes before knock off.

All I can comment is that my ex-GM simply made use of the economic downtown to retrench me. This is a Taiwan-based company and there isn’t any retrenchment going on from HQ – there are about 100+ employees in Taiwan (HQ) and 5 (including GM) employees in Singapore.

I am a Sales Executive and had managed to close a number of new accounts during my seven months with the company.

Therefore I can’t seem to find any good reason why I got axed off.

Moreover, I have to leave immediately.

Before I left, I was also pressured to sign a “Termination Letter” which I was reluctant to sign as I felt that the letter should be stated as Retrenchment Letter instead. At the same time, I was worried that the company won’t give me my salary if I don’t comply so I signed unwillingly. However. I had requested my HR manager to change it into a Retrenchment letter which she promised that she would do so later. Till today, I have yet to receive the Retrenchment letter from her. She didn’t response to my email as well.

I feel that I was unfairly treated but well, what can a small-time employee like me do anything about it? I tried to seek help from MOM but the Malay lady officer told me that since I had signed the “Termination Form”, there is nothing much I could do.

What’s the point of working so hard and being highly educated and when a crisis hit us, we won’t be able to do anything about being unfairly dismissed? In fact, we will be the first to leave when a downturn hits us and lose out a lot in terms of salary (employers will take advantage of the market downturn and offer you 30% to 50% lesser from your last drawn salary).

I came to realise that our employees are not well-protected in Singapore. I can go all the way down to MOM and take a Queue number, wait for my turn and share my “retrenchment” experience with the frontline officer and ended up getting no help at all. The officer will just say: “Sorry to hear that you are retrenched, but your salary is above $2500.00 therefore MOM can’t do anything about it.”

I am actively looking for a new job now.

Thank you for your time and lending a listening ear to all retrenched people.

Take care and God bless you too.

Quote:What’s the point of working so hard and being highly educated and when a crisis hit us, we won’t be able to do anything about being unfairly dismissed? In fact, we will be the first to leave when a downturn hits us and lose out a lot in terms of salary (employers will take advantage of the market downturn and offer you 30% to 50% lesser from your last drawn salary).

I came to realise that our employees are not well-protected in Singapore.

Sadly, many people have learnt the hard way that being highly educated (university degree etc.) is not the same as being well-informed (understanding the law).

Most, if not all in this forum are unlikely to be protected by the Employment Act. But, that doesn't mean the Employers can do anything they like to you.

To protect yourself, the most important thing before you sign on the employment letter, is to have gone thro' all the important aspects with the prospective employer. Most companies will have their Company Handbook, which lists the benefits and other work related HR stuff inside. But, these are not cast in stone and you can actually negotiate for better terms (assuming they are desperate to hire you) or if some things are not covered, you can negotiate with them. Once agreed upon, these can be stated in the Letter of Offer.

I do know of someone who negotiates for better Retrenchment Benefits terms before signing on the dotted line, when joining any start-ups (those backed by listed US / S'pore cos.). At last count, had been happily retrenched easily at least 3-5x...

Lastly, never be time pressured into signing anything, be it pre-employment or termination. Best is, bring it back so that you can go thro' it thoroughly or if necessary, seek the opinion of someone who's more experienced.

(31-08-2012, 12:25 PM)d.o.g. Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:What’s the point of working so hard and being highly educated and when a crisis hit us, we won’t be able to do anything about being unfairly dismissed? In fact, we will be the first to leave when a downturn hits us and lose out a lot in terms of salary (employers will take advantage of the market downturn and offer you 30% to 50% lesser from your last drawn salary).

I came to realise that our employees are not well-protected in Singapore.

Sadly, many people have learnt the hard way that being highly educated (university degree etc.) is not the same as being well-informed (understanding the law).

The best is don't loyal to any company unless is your own, treat work as business and not personal so there will be no disappointment or anguish. Remember the one who wields the axe doesn't know who you are he/she is just looking at a number on the financial report to cut it's all just business.

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(31-08-2012, 01:20 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]Most, if not all in this forum are unlikely to be protected by the Employment Act. But, that doesn't mean the Employers can do anything they like to you.

To protect yourself, the most important thing before you sign on the employment letter, is to have gone thro' all the important aspects with the prospective employer. Most companies will have their Company Handbook, which lists the benefits and other work related HR stuff inside. But, these are not cast in stone and you can actually negotiate for better terms (assuming they are desperate to hire you) or if some things are not covered, you can negotiate with them. Once agreed upon, these can be stated in the Letter of Offer.

I do know of someone who negotiates for better Retrenchment Benefits terms before signing on the dotted line, when joining any start-ups (those backed by listed US / S'pore cos.). At last count, had been happily retrenched easily at least 3-5x...

Lastly, never be time pressured into signing anything, be it pre-employment or termination. Best is, bring it back so that you can go thro' it thoroughly or if necessary, seek the opinion of someone who's more experienced.

Big US or foreign company are likely to pay retrenchment benefit over local companies but see not everybody got chance to work for us mnc. But also depends sometimes they have 2-3 cuts the first group that gets laid off are usually the lucky ones to get any retrenchment benefits as the management already fully budgeted for it subsequent cuts later may not guarantee any payout, remember there is no law that say company must pay you retrenchment benefit.

(31-08-2012, 01:20 PM)KopiKat Wrote: [ -> ]To protect yourself, the most important thing before you sign on the employment letter, is to have gone thro' all the important aspects with the prospective employer. Most companies will have their Company Handbook, which lists the benefits and other work related HR stuff inside. But, these are not cast in stone and you can actually negotiate for better terms (assuming they are desperate to hire you) or if some things are not covered, you can negotiate with them. Once agreed upon, these can be stated in the Letter of Offer.

I do know of someone who negotiates for better Retrenchment Benefits terms before signing on the dotted line, when joining any start-ups (those backed by listed US / S'pore cos.). At last count, had been happily retrenched easily at least 3-5x...

so far i seem to miss the retrenchment benefits stated in the employment letter

The world is a harsh place. If you can help the coy earn money, do u think u be axe?

(31-08-2012, 10:40 PM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ]so far i seem to miss the retrenchment benefits stated in the employment letter

You must be very unlucky?

But, like what d.o.g. posted, it'd be to your advantage to be well informed ie. understanding the law. For those not protected by the employment act, you'd have to do your own negotiations with the company, assuming they still have cash and you'd not been hastily pressured into signing any termination notice which'd revoke your rights (to any retrenchment benefits). If all else fails, you'd have to be prepared to engage your own lawyer... I think it's here where most would give up as they think it's not worth their time, effort and money....

In my case, I'd only been retrenched once. I was fortunate as I know the company, even tho' they were planning to liquidate, still had cash. We were able to subsequently negotiate for a slightly better deal than what was covered in our employment letter...