ValueBuddies.com : Value Investing Forum - Singapore, Hong Kong, U.S.

(17-12-2013, 10:02 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 09:01 PM)Tiggerbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 08:21 PM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ]I see from next year could be a good time to buy. In the news HDB will taper bto releases from next year but taper does not mean ending it. If including this year's quota almost total 100,000 bto flats released in the last 4 years.

Also I asked around buyers are not paying anymore COV and it's reported in the news record number of seller are willing to let go under valuation. It doesn't say why but I'm guessing high chance they are over leveraged maybe they took out loans to buy 2nd or even 3rd property during the boom times hope to flip but now prices falling people trying to avoid the squeeze, looks like firesales.

It doesn't hurt to wait a few more months to see how things develop next year.

Even my friend who has a HDB flat and had bought a 2nd property initially wanted to sell his HDB flat and keep his condo. But he changed his mind after I reminded him that it's not so easy to re-purchase a HDB flat after selling a private property.

Agree completely.

Mine is 4A HDB and so far most people think mine is equivalent to 5 Rm especially compare to latest 5 rm HDB. Even my renovation contractors want to charge me prices according to 5 rm HDB instead of 4 rm.
Besides in 2 to 3 years time, when i walk downstairs i can take a train to anywhere in Singapore.
How to sell and get something equivalent or at least near equivalent?
Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned.
Unless you downgrade to nowhere.
No?

Those having > 2 properties using income to service loans have to be very careful. Any disruption to that income will have big problem in meeting obligations those with smaller loans can last longer but last longer does not mean can survive in the end also. If there is a recession those leveraged will be affect.

(17-12-2013, 11:27 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ]

(17-12-2013, 10:02 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 09:01 PM)Tiggerbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 08:21 PM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ]I see from next year could be a good time to buy. In the news HDB will taper bto releases from next year but taper does not mean ending it. If including this year's quota almost total 100,000 bto flats released in the last 4 years.

Also I asked around buyers are not paying anymore COV and it's reported in the news record number of seller are willing to let go under valuation. It doesn't say why but I'm guessing high chance they are over leveraged maybe they took out loans to buy 2nd or even 3rd property during the boom times hope to flip but now prices falling people trying to avoid the squeeze, looks like firesales.

It doesn't hurt to wait a few more months to see how things develop next year.

Even my friend who has a HDB flat and had bought a 2nd property initially wanted to sell his HDB flat and keep his condo. But he changed his mind after I reminded him that it's not so easy to re-purchase a HDB flat after selling a private property.

Agree completely.

Mine is 4A HDB and so far most people think mine is equivalent to 5 Rm especially compare to latest 5 rm HDB. Even my renovation contractors want to charge me prices according to 5 rm HDB instead of 4 rm.
Besides in 2 to 3 years time, when i walk downstairs i can take a train to anywhere in Singapore.
How to sell and get something equivalent or at least near equivalent?
Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned.
Unless you downgrade to nowhere.
No?

Those having > 2 properties using income to service loans have to be very careful. Any disruption to that income will have big problem in meeting obligations those with smaller loans can last longer but last longer does not mean can survive in the end also. If there is a recession those leveraged will be affect.

Agree too.

(17-12-2013, 11:31 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]

(17-12-2013, 11:27 AM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ]

(17-12-2013, 10:02 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 09:01 PM)Tiggerbee Wrote: [ -> ]

(16-12-2013, 08:21 PM)sgd Wrote: [ -> ]I see from next year could be a good time to buy. In the news HDB will taper bto releases from next year but taper does not mean ending it. If including this year's quota almost total 100,000 bto flats released in the last 4 years.

Also I asked around buyers are not paying anymore COV and it's reported in the news record number of seller are willing to let go under valuation. It doesn't say why but I'm guessing high chance they are over leveraged maybe they took out loans to buy 2nd or even 3rd property during the boom times hope to flip but now prices falling people trying to avoid the squeeze, looks like firesales.

It doesn't hurt to wait a few more months to see how things develop next year.

Even my friend who has a HDB flat and had bought a 2nd property initially wanted to sell his HDB flat and keep his condo. But he changed his mind after I reminded him that it's not so easy to re-purchase a HDB flat after selling a private property.

Agree completely.

Mine is 4A HDB and so far most people think mine is equivalent to 5 Rm especially compare to latest 5 rm HDB. Even my renovation contractors want to charge me prices according to 5 rm HDB instead of 4 rm.
Besides in 2 to 3 years time, when i walk downstairs i can take a train to anywhere in Singapore.
How to sell and get something equivalent or at least near equivalent?
Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned.
Unless you downgrade to nowhere.
No?

Those having > 2 properties using income to service loans have to be very careful. Any disruption to that income will have big problem in meeting obligations those with smaller loans can last longer but last longer does not mean can survive in the end also. If there is a recession those leveraged will be affect.

Agree too.

Not to mention those who only bought in 2012/2013. When property prices come down, you might not be able to refinance your current loan as the bank will only loan you based on market valuation. That's what happen to the Americans who were able to retain their homes in the GFC but were not able to refinance at lower interest rates because their home value is under water.

uncle temperament
what do u mean by "Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned."

is ppty tax is higher - close to 1 month of tenancy goes to it?

(17-12-2013, 11:21 AM)Temperament Wrote: [ -> ]

(17-12-2013, 10:44 AM)NTL Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Uncle Temperature, a side question. Which area you stay? My HDB also will be enjoying MRT in 2-3yrs time, in Bt Panjang.

Oh! i stay in Bedok/Kaki Bukit. i think it's the DTL MRT.

By the way, why did you address me as Temperature instead of Temperament.
Are you angry with me because of something or it's a Genuine Mistake?
If i anger you in any particular instance, my apology.

Hi Uncle Temperament,

Sorry my mistake. Yesterday was typing out the message while taking care of my kid. Kind of busy now that it is holiday, having to handle 2 kids at home. I apologize for it.

(18-12-2013, 12:11 AM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ]is ppty tax is higher - close to 1 month of tenancy goes to it?

The tax for non-owner occupied starts from 10% of the Annual Value. So, if consider after all expenses, it can be close to 1month.

http://www.iras.gov.sg/irashome/uploaded...-11-14.pdf

(18-12-2013, 12:09 AM)pianist Wrote: [ -> ]uncle temperament
what do u mean by "Dream on as long as enhancement of your HDB in $$$ is concerned."

i mean if you have follow our Local Politics, you will know the Papys is always so proud to say HDB is an Enhanced Assets for the people.

It may be true in the beginning (1975-2000).
When i bought my 1st 3 rm flat it was only 23-K(i think).
i sold it for 62K only.
i upgrade to HDB Maissionette.
It was only 123-127K.
i paid fully with CPF.
Aka old timers like us called 2 bites of the cheery allowed by Papys.
(This may be the Era of real asset enhancement. Still very affordable for most workers)

After 2 bites of the Cheery, (i decided to take profit) i sold my Maisionette for low 500+K.
i downgraded to the largest resale 4 room i can find built by HDB.
The 4A.
i paid about 289K inclusive of 10K cash value.
This was about 15 years ago.
The current value is about 450-500K.

So do you think my current HDB has increased in value (Asset Enhanced) is true or not?
It's true only if i downgrade to nowhere.
So for HDB as an Enhanced Asset for the people is true only in "Relative Terms".
In Absolute Terms, i don't think so.
And on the condition you sell and buy downgrade.

What about the other way round.
If i still live in my 3 rm flats and sell now at market price of 300K+ and purchase my Current flat 4A @450-500K.
Is this really Asset Enhancement?
What is the future value of my flat?

It's still i have to buy downgrade before i can realise the value in the so call Enhanced asset.
So have my living standard being enhanced by HDB as an asset?
What about yours?
Any other opinion?

I guess there are few ways to realise the asset value enhancement. First I can think of is with the high hdb price, sell the hdb and migrate, u get the full asset value of inflated price of hdb. Second, high hdb price means high rental income. Rent out the hdb and use the rental money to pay for second property instalment. Then u must also monitor gov's progress in increasing population in Sg. If they really slow the import, then dun take the plunge.

Using migration to realise your asset value(aka HDB flat) is a different "Ball Game" .
So Malaysian PRs who can buy HDB flats have the best of both worlds.
In fact there is rumour in the market that they rent out the whole HDB flats in Singapore and stay in JB. But they still actually working in Singapore.
And many Malaysians after many years are still PRs.
Especially those who have properties and kins in Malaysia.
Frankly, if i am a Malaysian, i will do the same.
In life, it's really very rare to find the best of both worlds.